Question will we ever be able to go in a different galaxy?

[Helio]

There is no Magic Wand in Space Travel and there is no refueling regardless of vehicle type !!
Nor is there any known planet to go to ..
FTL or even at Light Speed is a dream of incredible proportions.
The technology required to travel between galaxies is far beyond humanity's present capabilities, and currently only the subject of speculation, hypothesis, and science fiction.
Dream On ..
At present capability of space travel it is ..

Yes, but SR reveals incredible potential for time savings. That makes speculating fun.

One could argue that if a ship were to travel at a high-end relativistic speed, it’s as if they are traveling faster than light (by their speed calculation using the 2.3 M lyr. distance/ few decades. Call it effective velocity.

 

[Atlan0001]

From Earth, nothing can be seen to travel to Andromeda in less than 2.3 M years, no matter what the spacecraft clock says.

Upon arriving Andromeda, if the travelers shine a light — triggering a S/N would be super helpful- it won’t reach Earth for another 2.3 million years, hence 4.6 million years.

Another way to consider this is to imagine if you used a magic wand of entanglement that triggered a SN in Andromeda instantly. It would then take 2.3 million years for that light to reach us. But we don’t have that magic wand so the fastest we could get there and light the fuse would be an additional 2.3 million years. 2 x 2.3 = 4.6 million years total.

How is this wrong?

The travel time was set at 30 years to travel 2.3 million light years, not 4.6 million light years. At each it bit of distance it takes a little longer for light to travel back to the observer from a traveler, just like it does on Earth. In no way does it take twice the time (4.6 million years) to travel half the distance (2.3 million years). It doesn't take light 2/1000ths of a second to travel 1/1000th of a light second's distance. For the light it's a one way trip there to here. The stretch to 2.3 million years is the 30 years travel time because the light leaving and arriving doesn't give a damn that it took the traveler only 30 years to cross the distance 2.3 million x 6 trillion miles. The universe the traveler arrived in at Andromeda after 30 years was a dark universe as far as the observer on Earth is concerned and remains dark universe for another 2.270 million to 2.3 million years. If he could be tracked by the observer, only his progressing advance over 2.3 million x 6 trillion miles would be tracked by a return in light, just like any conveyance on Earth. The time it takes for light to mark the progress of a conveyance on Earth, isn't instantaneous, and at the same time doesn't double in time with all increase in distance and it doesn't do it in space.

The given time of the traveler's trip was 30 years, and that would be his clocked time aboard his ship. Once more, light would stretch that 30 years at the speed of light back to the observer to 2.3 million years, plus 30 years, since light isn't going to travel faster the speed of light (186.000mps) through the vacuum of space. Once more, it doesn't give a damn what the traveler is doing in warping space-time. That includes what the traveler observes to his front, a fast forwarding movie of Andromeda's light time distance of 2.3 million (light) years crammed into the space-time of 30 years. At the end of which the Milky Way is observed to be 2.3 million light years distant from the traveler ... that is a minus of 2.3 million years distant, or about 2.3 million years before the traveler was born. The Milky Way level with Andromeda and the traveler in space-time is then dark universe stuff (at +2.3 million years to that -2.3 million years (Now (t=0))), since, again, the speed of light is not instantaneous across any distance.

The only possible way to even move is to contract, warp, space and time (space-time). Sheesh, can't you see that you couldn't move a silly millimeter as far as relativity is concerned if you couldn't get ahead of light to some degree even close up, much less farther and farther distant ... if you couldn't move faster than the speed of light (you couldn't even get from point A to point B, point B being dark universe stuff to the front and in the beginning and point A being dark universe stuff to the rear and at the end of the trip). Sheesh, even the universe itself is said by some to being expanding faster than the speed of light. You contract (warp) the universe just to move in it. You do it all the time whenever you move even the shortest of movements, so what makes you think it couldn't and wouldn't happen for a traveler big time? Quanta Mechanically, the faster anything appears to travel, particularly if it is accelerating, the less able any observer is able to position it in the universe. But you try to tell me you can gauge the velocity of it, and position it, precisely in space-time, at any time.

Once more, the original time to travel the distance (2.3 million light years or 2.3 million x 6 trillion miles) was set at 30 years. And the traveler, including you and me, contracts, warps, the universe simply to move a millimeter's distance, even less, in it. What has to be done -- what can and will be done -- to move a millimeter, or the equivalent fraction of an inch, can and will be done to move 2.3 million x 6 trillion miles. Only light can't contract the bubble. Quantum Mechanics does it by way of an equivalency, the principle of uncertainty (the principle of increasing uncertainty).

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Yes, and the clocks in other galaxies tick close to our clocks, thus a 30 year trip to Andromeda would advance the Andromeda clocks by 4.6 M years (2.3 M years of travel time + 2.3 M yrs of catching up to the clocks we’ve been observing).

A serious wait for ET to phone home LOL.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

From Earth, nothing can be seen to travel to Andromeda in less than 2.3 M years, no matter what the spacecraft clock says.

Upon arriving Andromeda, if the travelers shine a light — triggering a S/N would be super helpful- it won’t reach Earth for another 2.3 million years, hence 4.6 million years.

Another way to consider this is to imagine if you used a magic wand of entanglement that triggered a SN in Andromeda instantly. It would then take 2.3 million years for that light to reach us. But we don’t have that magic wand so the fastest we could get there and light the fuse would be an additional 2.3 million years. 2 x 2.3 = 4.6 million years total.

How is this wrong?

SPAD and Gravity seem to have instant location properties.
IMO they are one in the same effect of graviton interaction.
We might only have to wait a couple million years of the trip for ET to signal they have arrived with no signal time if we get SPAD communication to work.

Gravity has some trick to bypass time/space.
Or gravity has no interaction with space/time so it goes infinite fast through the medium between the smallest things or nothing.
No time or space in nothing so gravity will see the universe as points all connected with nothing between them.

Maybe that will be the trick to instant travel.
JMO

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

The travel time was set at 30 years to travel 2.3 million light years, not 4.6 million light years. At each it bit of distance it takes a little longer for light to travel back to the observer from a traveler, just like it does on Earth. In no way does it take twice the time (4.6 million years) to travel half the distance (2.3 million years). It doesn't take light 2/1000ths of a second to travel 1/1000th of a light second's distance. For the light it's a one way trip there to here. The stretch to 2.3 million years is the 30 years travel time because the light leaving and arriving doesn't give a damn that it took the traveler only 30 years to cross the distance 2.3 million x 6 trillion miles. The universe the traveler arrived in at Andromeda after 30 years was a dark universe as far as the observer on Earth is concerned and remains dark universe for another 2.270 million to 2.3 million years. If he could be tracked by the observer, only his progressing advance over 2.3 million x 6 trillion miles would be tracked by a return in light, just like any conveyance on Earth. The time it takes for light to mark the progress of a conveyance on Earth, isn't instantaneous, and at the same time doesn't double in time with all increase in distance and it doesn't do it in space.

The given time of the traveler's trip was 30 years, and that would be his clocked time aboard his ship. Once more, light would stretch that 30 years at the speed of light back to the observer to 2.3 million years, plus 30 years, since light isn't going to travel faster the speed of light (186.000mps) through the vacuum of space. Once more, it doesn't give a damn what the traveler is doing in warping space-time. That includes what the traveler observes to his front, a fast forwarding movie of Andromeda's light time distance of 2.3 million (light) years crammed into the space-time of 30 years. At the end of which the Milky Way is observed to be 2.3 million light years distant from the traveler ... that is a minus of 2.3 million years distant, or about 2.3 million years before the traveler was born. The Milky Way level with Andromeda and the traveler in space-time is then dark universe stuff (at +2.3 million years to that -2.3 million years (Now (t=0))), since, again, the speed of light is not instantaneous across any distance.

The only possible way to even move is to contract, warp, space and time (space-time). Sheesh, can't you see that you couldn't move a silly millimeter as far as relativity is concerned if you couldn't get ahead of light to some degree even close up, much less farther and farther distant ... if you couldn't move faster than the speed of light (you couldn't even get from point A to point B, point B being dark universe stuff to the front and in the beginning and point A being dark universe stuff to the rear and at the end of the trip). Sheesh, even the universe itself is said by some to being expanding faster than the speed of light. You contract (warp) the universe just to move in it. You do it all the time whenever you move even the shortest of movements, so what makes you think it couldn't and wouldn't happen for a traveler big time? Quanta Mechanically, the faster anything appears to travel, particularly if it is accelerating, the less able any observer is able to position it in the universe. But you try to tell me you can gauge the velocity of it, and position it, precisely in space-time, at any time.

Once more, the original time to travel the distance (2.3 million light years or 2.3 million x 6 trillion miles) was set at 30 years. And the traveler, including you and me, contracts, warps, the universe simply to move a millimeter's distance, even less, in it. What has to be done -- what can and will be done -- to move a millimeter, or the equivalent fraction of an inch, can and will be done to move 2.3 million x 6 trillion miles. Only light can't contract the bubble. Quantum Mechanics does it by way of an equivalency, the principle of uncertainty (the principle of increasing uncertainty).

Us matter beings are stuck at very close to C.
At C we turn into radiation.
99.99etc is close enough for little difference to C but over long distances it still mounts up and accounts for all the time passing on any highspeed trip.

As you say light makes the trip in no time at all.
We see it taking billions of years to cross the universe but light's perspective it traveled across the universe in no time.

 

[Pogo]

Every source that I have read so far say that gravitational waves travel at c, at least it has been verified to within 1 %. So, if the Sun were to magically disappear, the Earth would continue in orbit for another 8 minutes or so before it then assumes a galactic orbit. Then it’s gonna get really cold and dark.

 

[Sohaib iqbal]

will we ever be able to go in a different galaxy?

NO this is the try we making in fooling and faliur we dont even aboout atom correctly we are confused to determine the exact age of earth and universe begnings so we first make our selves to make a correct natural phenomena because with that we all still at the position where the previous scientist were we even kmow about philosophy or natural philosophy we have explaned all the possible facts but why we are in confused situation to predict about the smaalest particle.

we have a earth which is so small to sun that 1 lac 19 thosands earths can down into the bottom of sun so why the general reletivity law applied as the gravitational force for whole univers wevapply specific laa but different for earth this is not a logic .specific should be applied

 

[Atlan0001]

Us matter beings are stuck at very close to C.
At C we turn into radiation.
99.99etc is close enough for little difference to C but over long distances it still mounts up and accounts for all the time passing on any highspeed trip.

As you say light makes the trip in no time at all.
We see it taking billions of years to cross the universe but light's perspective it traveled across the universe in no time.

The light's time is stuck in "photo" frame(s). A single-sided 2-dimensional light frame of space-time (it has only front, no rear (it's only vacuum corridor to its rear which is why it can never be caught up to (there being nothing there to catch up to but "photo" time(s) only observable -- as to space-time -- from the "front" of its accordion-like time (or slinky-spring-toy-like time) corridor)). It balloons out into the universe from its source (even a laser beam progressively ballooning) progressively mixing with other balloons, progressively mixing and changing space-time framing as frames progressively gain periphery and become crossroads for space and time travelers. The future (+) of the corridor's source is into each front . . . and on and on into the corridor of the front. The traveler being point A, point B is at the end of that light-time frame corridor of accordion-like warp space-time fronts (at the end of that slow-fast-forwarding, or just fast-forwarding, to lightening-fast-forwarding, movie).

From "light's perspective", it traveled "across the universe" but (from its own perspective inwardly) rearward in time. The relative limit of gathering periphery forward (+) into frames observably, relatively, in depth "rearward (-) in time" is. . . .

 

[Atlan0001]

Amazing how one animation, or illustration, can illustrate more than one picture. Everything in the universe is in motion, so point A traveler traveling to point B source of framing (ascending in time [past(-)-future(+)], described somewhat above in post #34 (among several other posts in other threads) must follow curvatures and has an animation that realizes it almost perfectly while meant to illustrate something else: You have to see it as surrounding and encompassing the space and time traveler at all points (all sources of framing). He will travel into one or more of the [past-future] space-time frame fronts (corridors ascending from observed past to unobserved source -- dark universe stuff unobservable until arrival). The animation couldn't illustrate the geometry of space's traveling "photo" time frames more perfectly (curvatures travelers (A) must travel into (contracting (warping) space-time), or bypass by navigating straighter-lines to sources (B) themselves always on the move (the farther distant in space-time from anywhere, then, the far greater -- the far more expansive -- the curvatures):

Physicists Uncover Geometric ‘Theory Space’ | Quanta Magazine

The only thing it doesn't illustrate is the crossings, the infinity of accumulations and crossroads, which if it did would turn it solid black (an illustration attempting too many dimensions to one illustration). It couldn't be better for what they needed it to show, or for what I needed it to show.
-------------------------------

It's a Multiverse Universe.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Every source that I have read so far say that gravitational waves travel at c, at least it has been verified to within 1 %. So, if the Sun were to magically disappear, the Earth would continue in orbit for another 8 minutes or so before it then assumes a galactic orbit. Then it’s gonna get really cold and dark.

The reality of gravity has and will continue to baffle the best of minds.
Gravity waves do travel at C but we also orbit the true location of the sun not it's location 8 minutes ago.
If we orbited at the C location of the sun orbital mechanics break down for all the planets.
Gravity has a mechanism for at minimum instant location awareness.

IMO gravity travels between the smallest things (nothing) seeming to go at instant speed through no space/time so the trip is 0 distance and time to any location.
It also leaves a wake on regular space/time at C and has to travel with C laws in that realm of space.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

The light's time is stuck in "photo" frame(s). A single-sided 2-dimensional light frame of space-time (it has only front, no rear (it's only vacuum corridor to its rear which is why it can never be caught up to (there being nothing there to catch up to but "photo" time(s) only observable -- as to space-time -- from the "front" of its accordion-like time (or slinky-spring-toy-like time) corridor)). It balloons out into the universe from its source (even a laser beam progressively ballooning) progressively mixing with other balloons, progressively mixing and changing space-time framing as frames progressively gain periphery and become crossroads for space and time travelers. The future (+) of the corridor's source is into each front . . . and on and on into the corridor of the front. The traveler being point A, point B is at the end of that light-time frame corridor of accordion-like warp space-time fronts (at the end of that slow-fast-forwarding, or just fast-forwarding, to lightening-fast-forwarding, movie).

From "light's perspective", it traveled "across the universe" but (from its own perspective inwardly) rearward in time. The relative limit of gathering periphery forward (+) into frames observably, relatively, in depth "rearward (-) in time" is. . . .

Or a very simple solution is between fluctuation is (nothing)
Particles travel from potential something to something with jumps of nothing between. (near c speed max)
Waves just the supported distances from A to B making it look like waves are part of particles but they are just the medium of travel.(c speed max)
Gravity no interaction with the medium so it is instant speed through no space/time or no distance to go (is that even travel?).
SPAD same mechanism.

Simple solution to the nature of the universe but it does open a big can of worms about the reality of space and time and true distance/size.

If gravity says the universe has no size it probably doesn't have a defined size.

 

[Moon]

Maybe we came from a different galaxy and somehow we got on EARTH.

Just a thought.

 

[Atlan0001]

Planck Big Bang (E) | Big Crunch (M) | Big Vacuum (C^2)
Mass and energy are equivalent (mass-energy).
Binary Base2 is '0' and/or '1' : The Cosmological Constant is binary base.
I have infinity's constant to be '1'.
Big Crunch (M) = infinity = '1' (constant!).
M = '1'.
E=MxC^2.
C^2 = '1'xC^2.
'1'=C^2/C^2.
Mass and energy are equivalent (mass-energy).

The Big Mirror mirrors:
(mirrors) Planck Big Bang, left to right . . . the positive (+) of the negative (-).
(mirrors) Big Crunch, right to left . . . the negative (-) of the positive (+).
C = (+/-)186,000mps ((+/-)300,000kps).
C = '1' (open systemic infinity) (background constant!).
C = '0' (closed systemic 'uncertainty') (foreground constant!).
C = C . . . squaring(!) (C^2) (Big Vacuum (C^2)).
C(!) = C(!).
The Big Mirror mirrors.
--------------------------
It's a Multiverse Universe.

 

[spacedweller]

will we ever be able to go in a different galaxy?

I know i just want it to happen soon but i will be dead.

lol, here is good news for you:

There is a possibility but with the following ratio: 1:10^100

 

[Catastrophe]

Question: will we ever be able to go in a different galaxy?

Answer: No. Not even if we last beyond Friday week.

Cat

 

[COLGeek]

Off topic posts removed. Please stay on subject folks.

As a reminder, disagree by providing sources and follow-up questions. Seek clarification through discourse, not through slights or insults.

If a member posts something not understood, feel free to ask about it.

Thank you.

 

[Catastrophe]

Atlan, I am sure that I am not the only one who would like to ask you politely to please explain the relevance of your post #39.
It is clearly of some importance to you and we would be most grateful if you would please enlighten us as to the relevance to title subject.

Thanks in advance.

Cat

 

[Atlan0001]

Atlan, I am sure that I am not the only one who would like to ask you politely to please explain the relevance of your post #39.
It is clearly of some importance to you and we would be most grateful if you would please enlighten us as to the relevance to title subject.

Thanks in advance.

Cat

"Will we ever be able to go in a different galaxy?" Yes. What. Why. The only thing I left out was t=0 and t=1 and t = [pasts (-) > futures (+)]. We will have constant powering of ships. We will have a constant of acceleration and deceleration. We will know the what of hyper-dimensionality. We will learn the why of abilities to warp, to contract and expand, space-time at will. We will realize that for all that, we can never get closer to the most distant horizon of C, E, M, and t=1 than we are right now (c = (+/-) 186,000mps ((+/-) 300,000) ('1') (infinity)).

Our biggest problem, if we make into space and into the universe, at all, will be wondering about all that "fly over country" of the universe as we pass over it on our way. I gave out my what and why. I have many threads and posts mixing and matching my universe model of universes (u) (and Universe (U)) with the traveler traveling through it all, and this you, at the very least, well know!

That expansionary picture of the observed (the observable, detectable) universe is one of elasticity, and as we have discovered regarding the elasticity of distances on Earth (thus as we have shrunk the Earth), we will find distances in the unknown, the unobservable, universes to be just as pliably elastic. There are those who believe it to be so relativistic, which the observable, detectable, universe is, nothing can move in it much less shrink enormous space-times at will. You were not being polite in your complete disregard of what I've been over in many past posts, encapsulated in post #39 without additional mixing of universe model and traveler traveling space and time (space-time). You are also supposed to be an expert in language, you claim constantly, so you knew exactly what you were giving an o.k. to. Being as civil as I can be to you, you know better than to think it (what it really was) would go over my head.

"Will we ever be able to go in a different galaxy?" Once again, sure we will, if life is ever to expand out, spread out, from a certain mudhole. There are more dimensions -- there is greater dimensionality -- to the universes than there is to this closed system, relativistic, box, womb, and mudhole we've already outgrown in dimensions of energies, complexities, organs and limbs (cellular structures, so to speak), reaches, wants and needs (like the human child in its ninth month in a womb world). Out of it we will be much, much more than the negative we must become if we can't birth out. Even the Old World, the Home World, as in the past, will become much more if we ever expand from it.

Like the Horn of Plenty in all its giving, though, we can never reach, much less touch, the Universe (U) 'Horizon' of the Horn itself.

The Andromeda galaxy, the unobserved Andromeda galaxy, not the observed, detected, one always brought to us at the speed of light is not only in a separate universe from the observed universe we have the habit of totaling up to a relativistic absolute, it is a separate universe existing in a different dimensional plane of universe until it completes collision with the Milky Way. The vast, vast, expansion of uncertainty going away from us, is at once a vast, vast expansion of separations of spaces and times (of separations of space-times (thus mass-energy-cell-like divisions (Schrondinger's cat-like simultaneity existing with -- binary "and/or" equivalence to -- paralleling and opposed to -- "from many, one" (the Big Crunch (M)) -- "from one, many" (the Planck Big Bang (E)))). It will take an internally powered (a self accelerating) conveyance to travel through the planes of Hawking's hyper space-time "Grand Central Station" but we will have it, given that we manage to break out -- in mass --into the larger more open systemic universe at all. The odds of one genius finding a way are one in infinity. The odds of mass genius finding a way are infinitely better.
------------------------

It's a Multiverse Universe.

 

[Catastrophe]

"We will have constant powering of ships. We will have a constant of acceleration and deceleration. We will know the what of hyper-dimensionality. We will learn the why of abilities to warp, to contract and expand, space-time at will."

Until these ideas become reality (if ever) would you not agree that these building blocks are no more than the stuff of science fiction"

As Wolf stated in #2, "If the human race manages to survive the next 5 billion years, one will come to us. Until then, I find it unlikely that we'll be able to travel that far."

I have to agree with him. Unless, of course, you are privy to some undisclosed research?

Cat

 

[Atlan0001]

"We will have constant powering of ships. We will have a constant of acceleration and deceleration. We will know the what of hyper-dimensionality. We will learn the why of abilities to warp, to contract and expand, space-time at will."

Until these ideas become reality (if ever) would you not agree that these building blocks are no more than the stuff of science fiction"

As Wolf stated in #2, "If the human race manages to survive the next 5 billion years, one will come to us. Until then, I find it unlikely that we'll be able to travel that far."

I have to agree with him. Unless, of course, you are privy to some undisclosed research?

Cat

I'm very privy to one thing for an absolute certainty (make it "some undisclosed research"), "travel that far" is strictly "that far" in the mind. You prove that "that far" is "that far" and, in reality, not right next door, thus not the "stuff of science fiction", so to speak. It's only "that far" regarding some relativistic absolute of distances in which nothing moves faster than a snale's pace, if even that fast. As far as I'm concerned, what you said, and Wolf said, about time means we never shrank the distances of Earth as we have in 10,000 thousand years. More specifically, in the last 200 years of that 10,000 years.

No more than me do you know what is out there regarding the unobserved and unobservable from Earth. No more than me do you know anything regarding possible unobserved and unobservable travelers of the unobserved and unobservable universes out there. But there is one thing you did in fact effectively say, you do not believe there is any traveling species, any species capable of traveling, existing anywhere out there. Reminds me of the fable of the first two humans where no other humans existed before they did. And no other humans existed alongside of and with them either. And no other life existed anywhere on Earth (so not anywhere in any universes) until shortly before them. I don't think it is what you or Wolf meant to imply, but it is exactly what you did imply regarding the "great unknown" (the larger, greater, Cosmopolis).

 

[Catastrophe]

Atlan, on that basis, I believe that seven legged green and purple striped snails are going to invade the Earth and there is nothing that you or anyone else can do to disprove it. The situation may be a little more lurid, but the outcome is equally fictitious.

*I'm very privy to one thing for an absolute certainty (make it "some undisclosed research")*
If you are suggesting that space/time can be shrunken, then I would politely ask you the basis of your assumption, unless of course it is covered by the Official Secrets Act?

I really do admire your imagination, but your whole postulation appears to be based on a string of improbable suggestions, none of which has any basis in reality.
Vide "We will have constant powering of ships. We will have a constant of acceleration and deceleration. We will know the what of hyper-dimensionality. We will learn the why of abilities to warp, to contract and expand, space-time at will."

I do thank you for entering into discussion, as this is much more useful than a series of bald numbers and letters.
"I have many threads and posts mixing and matching my universe model of universes (u) (and Universe (U)) with the traveler traveling through it all, and this you, at the very least, well know!"
I think that most of us know that you have posted very similar detail "over many threads and posts" and it is for this very reason that I am seeking some reason that they should all have been relevant to all those threads. In other words, I would like to know if there is something as important as E=mc^2 that I am missing, as, if so, I would dearly love to know about it.

Oh, one final question. When you shrink time, how do you know that you have not accelerated ageing? Presumably you are not suggesting that you manipulate time over the whole Universe, just to achieve some personal benefit in one tiny location, so one must assume that the shrinking is limited to you and your surrounding bubble. So, when you come back to join us, you must catch up with us and the rest of the world. And how large is your surrounding bubble? Presumably it includes your clothes and local inhaled oxygen and exhaled carbon dioxide. - the wallet in your jacket pocket - your handkerchief - your coins - et cetera? How do you ensure that these travel with you? I do love such interesting discussions.


Cat

 

[IG2007]

Well, I don't know if I am adding anything new to the conversation but,

Referring to the OG question, well, unless we really manage to do an Alcubierre Drive (well, Negative Energy whose mass is as much as Jupiter) or discover a nearby wormhole (does that give anyone a slight nudge about a movie made by a really cool director whose surname is Nolan?) or make some kind of soda that can allow us to sleep for millions of years - probably no.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

I'm very privy to one thing for an absolute certainty (make it "some undisclosed research"), "travel that far" is strictly "that far" in the mind. You prove that "that far" is "that far" and, in reality, not right next door, thus not the "stuff of science fiction", so to speak. It's only "that far" regarding some relativistic absolute of distances in which nothing moves faster than a snale's pace, if even that fast. As far as I'm concerned, what you said, and Wolf said, about time means we never shrank the distances of Earth as we have in 10,000 thousand years. More specifically, in the last 200 years of that 10,000 years.

No more than me do you know what is out there regarding the unobserved and unobservable from Earth. No more than me do you know anything regarding possible unobserved and unobservable travelers of the unobserved and unobservable universes out there. But there is one thing you did in fact effectively say, you do not believe there is any traveling species, any species capable of traveling, existing anywhere out there. Reminds me of the fable of the first two humans where no other humans existed before they did. And no other humans existed alongside of and with them either. And no other life existed anywhere on Earth (so not anywhere in any universes) until shortly before them. I don't think it is what you or Wolf meant to imply, but it is exactly what you did imply regarding the "great unknown" (the larger, greater, Cosmopolis).

I would have to agree that distance/time is only the going from point A to point B in a universe that at a fundamental level is wrapped in nothing.
Maters interaction with normal space is going from point A to B but also having to go to point C.
Gravitons probably bypass any trip other than A to B so they appear to go at instant speed but do so in a universe with only 2 points right beside each other.
That reality is telling us something about the true nature of the universe or the ability of gravity not to interact with space/time .

I'm sure if humanity can make it through this week then the next one then some point in the future the graviton bypass will give up it's secrets.
Right now we are as much a part of space/time as anything and stuck in limits of the fabric of space/time.

What appears to be a universe set in size and space/time laws could easily just be an illusion of perspective of matter beings.
Or things might be just the way we see them.

jury is out on reality but expected to be back in a few trillion years

 

[Catastrophe]

An addition to #47:

What happens to your watch and by what mechanism is it altered? Is it showing the wrong time when you return?

Cat

 

[Atlan0001]

Correction to #39, plus . . .:

Infinity = '1' (background / foreground constant (collapsed, universal 'horizon', constant)).
C = '1' ((+/-) 186,000mps) ((+/-) 300,000kps) (all velocities, all frames / all fronts (all incoming from every point of the compass), measure 'c' equal to 'c').
'(+/-)' Particle (+) / Tachyon (-) (equivalent).
C='0' ('uncertainty').
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Every single one (sic) of an infinity of points of the infinite Universe is the exact center point of the infinite Universe (thus 'c' will measure 'c' at every point of the compass). But never betwixt and between (c = '0' ('uncertainty')).
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It's a Multiverse Universe.