(Yablam Idea) + (Magnetic Catapult) at 85km high

[yavuzbasturk]

hi,<br />i sent my new lauch method idea few days ago to forum.<br />you can find details of idea with sample pictures at <br />www.yablam.org/sum_eng.htm.<br /><br />now i think to combine yablam with magnetic catapult launch method. i did picture, you can see here ;<br />www.yablam.org/yablam_magnetic_catapult.GIF<br /><br />this method yablam will be 90km high.<br />payloads will ascend on hose with electric power.<br />rockets will carry a magnetic catapult to 85km high too.<br />at 85km high, temperature is -90c, so it is easy to run super-conductor magnetic catapult. <br />magnetic catapult can not be run at ground because air friction will burn payload. but if we carry capatult to 85km high we can accelerate orbital speed with catapult ! <br /><br />so difference between launching 1 ton or 5 ton payload to orbital speed will be only more electric power used. electric is produced at ground. <br /><br />i am not sure is 85km high is enough because of air friction. maybe 50km is enough or it must be minimum 150km.<br /><br />i am not sure minimum length and mass of a super conductor magnetic catapult that will accelerate 5 ton payload to 7.7 km/s orbital speed.<br /><br />i am not sure what is maximum G that electronic payloads can handle. as i know maximum G for man is 6G.<br /><br />magnetic catapult is old idea for payload launching at moon. because there is no air on moon. <br /><br />advantages of this method ;<br />- no need to use chemical fuel to accelerate orbital speed.<br />- we use electric to accelerate orbital speed. mass of electric power is 0kg.<br />- we have %100 REUSABLE launch structure.<br />- ONLY cost of launching payloads is fuel and electric. we dont destroy any structure each time we launch new payload.<br /><br />some links on magnetic catapult ;<br /><br />http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/february2</safety_wrapper

 

[yevaud]

It's a very old idea for use here on Earth, too. For example, SF writers were writing about this idea in the 1940's and 50's. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[yavuzbasturk]

i changed my idea.<br />i got new patent on new idea.<br />we are creating animation with 3dsmax with a friend, and we do some math on idea. after we finish animation of idea, i'll post to this forum details of idea.<br /><br />we built a magnetic catapult with 90 degree angle inside a mountain. length of catapult will be 2km or 3km.<br />magnetic catapult will be in a vacuum tube so we can speed it up do 20km/s easily.<br />we also carry a vacum tube to 30-40km height with hundreds of ballons.(90 degree angle) ballons can carry high mass up to 42km, so we can use ballons to carry parts of vacum tube.<br />once all parts of tube is in air, with a mechanic system we clamp parts each other and we get 30-40km line of vacum tube. we clamp this tube to vacum tube of capatult which is inside a mountain, we vacuum air in tube and we <br />get air friction free launch tube !<br />there will be electric line on parts of vacum cubes. horizontal movement will be created with electric powered propollers. This is new idea and i patented this too.<br />with 3km catapult and 2500G launching speed, we can send nuclear & chemical waste to splease in bullets safely with 12,135 km/s speed. Bullet will pass catapult in 0,494s and pass vacum tunel (40km) in 3,049s.<br />if we cretae long catapult with on a side of mountain, we can send satellites and human witj low G too. i am trying to calculate necessary catapult designs for human & satellites.<br />a basic picture is http://www.yablam.org/VakumTunel_A.gif.

 

[yavuzbasturk]

here is my calculate ;<br /><br />our waste bullet is = mass = 100kg<br />result speed = 13.000m/s (bigger from earth escape velovity)<br /><br />Energy = (mass * Velocity²) / 2 <br />Energy = 100kg * (13.000 m/s * 13.000 m/s) / 2<br />Energy = 100kg * (169.000.000) / 2 <br />Energy = 8.450.000.000 Joule<br />Energy = 8.450.000.000 (watt*second)<br /><br />we assume efficient of magnetic catapult is %30, so ;<br />Energy Used = 28.166.000.000 Joule (rounded)<br /><br />Joule means (watts*second), to find KWH of joule we divide Joule to 3.600.000 and <br />Energy = 28.166.000.000 Joule / 3.600.000 = 7.825 KWh (rounded)<br /><br />if we spread this energy over the 3000m, each 1m segment has 2-3 KWh only and this wont be temperature problem i guess.<br /><br />we assume cost of KWh of electric is 5 cent. our launching cost is $400 per 100kg, means $4 per kg.<br />this is thousand times cheaper than rocket method,<br />any mistake on this calculation ? <br /><br />(we assume that air friction after 40km will descrease speed very small so bullets has escape velocity speed always.)<br /><br />there will be additional cost of electric for hundreds of propellers working on vacuum tunnel but i did not counted it.<br /><br />here is link for conversion of joule to KWH ;<br />http://www.answers.com/topic/joule<br />http://www.essex1.com/people/speer/units.html<br />

 

[severian]

Hmm, ok, I'm assuming your proposing the following:<br /><br />A 2 km long magnetic rail used to accelerate people to orbital velocity, which is sitting on top of an 85 km tall tower?<br /><br />If that's not correct, ignore the rest of the post. If it is, well, unfortunately there are a few problems with this.<br /><br />Firstly, an 85 km tower is just ... well, we know of no materials that could build it now. The one option you could have is to use inflated gas bags to support the weight, but the volume of those needed would be enourmous. Space-elevators work by having one end spinning in space, which means that only a fraction of the towers total weight is resting on the ground. In this design, the entire of the towers weight would be.<br /><br />The other problem as I see it is the length of the 2 km launch rail. You want to accelerate people to 7700 ms^-1 right? Well, to do that on a 2 km long rail, lets try to see the kind of acceleration we would need to put people on:<br /><br />Final Velocity = 7700 ms^-1<br />Initial Velocity = 0 ms^-1<br />Distance = 2000 m<br /><br />velocity^2 = 2 * acceleration * distance<br />acceleration = velocity^2 / (2 * distance)<br />acceleration = 14,822 ms^-2<br /><br />So basically what your suggesting is to put these poor people through an acceleration of 1,500g. Somehow I doubt they'd pay for that.<br /><br />Using a circular track would be more advisable, although you'd have to calcualte the dimensions carefully.<br />

 

[severian]

Ah, but the thing that's greatest about this idea is the enourmous moment that's going to be put on the base of the tower - with a several km long accelerator sticking off the top of a 85 km tower. You'll need to dig to the center of the Earth to support this one

 

[yavuzbasturk]

i know maximum G for man is 6G and maximum G for untrained people is 3G. this can be used to launch nuclear waste to sun forever. to launch man or satellite with this method, a long rail will be needed. i did a basic picture of rail desgin to send a man. <br />http://www.yablam.org/HumanCatapultDiagram.GIF<br />(picture is big resolution)<br />(picture is 1pixel=100m scaled)<br />rail lentgh is 100km.<br />speed of human at the end of rail is 2427 m/s with 3G acceleration. man will pass rail in 82s and will pass vcuum tunnel in 24 seconds.<br /><br />and highest point of vacuum tunnel will be 40 km, not 85 km. at 40km height, air friction is 1/800 of sea level and this is enough small value to ascend man to 185km height.<br />and balloons can ascend up to 42km in theory.<br /><br />circular pressure of rail is maximum 3G too with this design .<br /><br />another design can be for satellites on a side of mountain.<br />we assume 100G tolerate satellites can be created.<br />with a rail starting on a top of 6km height and total 21km length is enough to launch satellites. with 100G, result speed of satellite will be 6403 m/s. we need carry sloping 118km vacuum tunnel until satellite reaches 40km height. <br />

 

[yavuzbasturk]

balloons can carry payload up to 42km high. (http://jpaerospace.com/atohandout.pdf) <br /><br />maximum altitute that man reached with balloon is 34,668 m. (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004552.html)<br /><br /> i think to carry vacuum tunnel up to 40km height. at 40km height, air pressure is 1/800 of sea level. <br /><br />get get orbital velocity rail and vacuum tunnel will be 30 degree slanted. so speed gained on magnetic rail can be used as orbital speed. <br /><br />design with 90 degree perpendicular rail + tunnel is ONLY to send nuclear waste to sun forever.<br /><br /> rail will be builded on ground. there will be NO rail inside of vacuum tunnels. vacuum tunnel is a only cyclinder that will create a airfriction-free path to payload. vacuum tunnel will be light because at 6km height (top of mountain) air pressure is 400 gr/cm2. a kevlar tube can carry this pressure easily, and baloons can carry this kevlar tube too. balloons will be designed as cyclinder too. we will insert 1-2m radius vacuum tunnel center of a 6m radius cyclinder balloons.<br /><br />did you discuss creating a airfriction-free travel path up to 40km with vacuum tunnels before ? what is link of that thread ?

 

[yavuzbasturk]

there is no accelerator rail tower on new idea.<br />accelerator rail will be builted on side of mountain, after accelerating finishes -- /> payload will ascend in a vacuum tunnel up to 40km, at 40km height, payload will contact 1/800 density air.