2024 Moon Base

[neutrino78x]

You can do a Mars mission fully fueled from Earth. You do it by refueling on Mars, generating the fuel by reacting hydrogen with chemicals found in the Martian atmosphere. Thus you send the humans with only enough fuel to go one way; the fuel for the return trip has already been generated on Mars by a robotic craft sent in advance. See The Mars Society FAQ (Mars Direct).

--Brian

 

[MeteorWayne]

Indeed, please stick to the topic under discussion...

2024 Moon Base

Mod Meteor Wayne

 

[FossilGeek]

Let's not forget that the Altair Lander has also been threatened with elimination. With no lander, the rest is moot.

 

[trailrider]

SURE, WE CAN HAVE A MOON BASE BY 2024, under one of two circumstances:

1) China loans us the money to enable us to RENT space in their base; or

2) China, India, Russia, Japan, Brazil, et al, allow us to pay for tourist seats/rooms, etc.

We didn't start this war against Al Qeda and the Taliban, but we have no choice but to defend ourselves! And the further from our shores we do it, the safer we will be. That costs money! (Sadly, the lives and health of many of those who stand up and say, "Here I am. Send me!") In addition, we have many problems that the American public, and the politicians we elect believe take priority over space exploration, especially human spaceflight.

We have become risk-averse, as well. Partly this is due to Challenger and Columbia, but NOT entirely! We have lost the WILL to explore and place a few of us at risk. We have also elected politicians who place more emphasis on getting re-elected, by promising "the moon right here on Earth" than on expanding our horizons! The majority of Americans do not understand the benefits that the manned space program have and will provide, as well as maintaining our technological superiority and industrial base! The fact that NASA, Congress and the past few presidents have failed to understand and make the people understand this!

What will be the result? In the 1400's Prince Henry the Navigator, king of Portugal was a leader in exploration beyond the known horizons. For whatever reason, political, economic, etc., Portugal virtually abandoned most of its exploration. Spain took over by default in 1492.

WE ARE ABOUT TO BECOME THE PORTUGAL OF THE SPACE AGE! :evil:

 

[quincunx]

We can put $2000 billion in "stimulus money" and pork, we can bail out banks and bankers to the tune of $700 billion, but we can't put an extra $10 billion a year into the space program because it would be fiscally irresponsible. Give me a break. If NASA had $10 billion a year extra for the heavy booster program and the moon station, in 20 years we would have the moonbase and be well on our way to a Mars base, but NO-O-O-O, every year NASA has to fight to even continue to exist. ---Oh well, we can always hitch a ride with China, and maybe Russia, as long as we make nice and change our internal and international policies to please them. We can have a nice quiet slide into 3rd world status just like our leaders seem to want us to do.

 

[webnix]

The only government plan guarenteed to last 20 years is TAXES.

I wonder where we would be if the USA had maintained the momentum from the Apollo days? Permenant Moon base? Done! Mars exploration? Done! Colonials on Mars? In Progress! Exploration of Europa ocean? In Progress!

Mining unobtainim on Pandora...Maybe not but hey the blue people are cool!!!

 

[menellom]

See... when I said "I think we're starting to get a little off topic guys" what I was trying to get across I think we're starting to get a little off topic guys.

 

[Lamphere]

Right now our nation has greater concerns than space exploration. We have 2 wars and an ailing economy. We have the possibility of another war looming on the horizon. What we should do is militarize NASA. NASA should focus on space base weapons and vehicles capable of delivering troops to anyspot on the globe within 90 minutes. NASA should also be put under the command of the department of Defense. With the ever growing threat of terrorism and Rogue nations we should be focusing on our own defense.
Also our economy is struggling we need to focus on sustainable job creation, not space exploration. Ok some might argue that jobs will be created. But how many and for how long? Lets invest our tax dollars in something we can use. Lets strengthen our military and prepare it for tommarow's battles.

 

[FrankT]

A lot of these arguments are really silly. Like: "We need the money for jobs creation." Where do you think the money gets spent? We don't load it on a rocket and launch it into the heart of the sun. We spend it right here on Earth, sustaining a high tech industry, inspiring people to learn and get involved, and maintain our technical excellence. About 5% of our population is involved in science and engineering, the technical arts. The other 95% are consumers of the output. Does it make sense to strangle and kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs so that one can eat the goose? We are taxing the successful to subsidize the indolent.

A moon base is ideal as an intermediate objective, to define an objective to design for. You cannot hypothesize all issues, it takes implementation efforts to really pin-point the problems, and as they get solved the process evolves. That takes sustained effort over long periods, but it seems we would rather spend the money on bigger TV's so we can watch yet another brain-dead reality show. Spectators instead of participants.

 

[FrankT]

Besides that, how are you going to strengthen the military? It takes technology to do that. We have long left the human wave strategy of warfare. Building the capability takes technology, and there have to be technology drivers. The point of the spear should be space, and space exploration. Unless we start to recognize our national self interests and support them strategically our culture will erode and atrophy like the Roman Empire. Maybe it doesn't take a Moon base, but flitting from failed development project to failed development project is only cutting bait. Let's go fishing!

 

[MeteorWayne]

MOD HAT ON***

Any future posts not related to the topic of 2024 moon base will be moved (along with the ones already here) to a separate topic in the Politics forum

MOD HAT OFF***

MW

 

[01speed21]

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. Talk is cheap, and while the politicians talk the talk, they don't put their money where their mouth is. I just don't think there is the vision and determination that it will take to make it come to pass. Sad, but we live in an instant gratification society, and politicians can't plan anything past the next election.

 

[menellom]

Do you guys even READ the moderator posts???

 

[ZenGalacticore]

I still don't understand why it would take us 10 years to return to the Moon; when we clearly have more computing power and improved rocket science since the Apollo 11 mission some 40 years ago. It doesn't follow logic that something we accomplished forty years ago should be more difficult to accomplish now in 2010 then it was in1969? In a worst case scenario we should be able to retrofit the original design/build, and land two advance party astronauts with in 1 years time...

Man I love that pic! Instead of saluting the flag, he could be saying, "Howdy Mr. Ranger! Just campin' out here on the Moon. Yes sir, we have a trash bag."

I read somewhere that many of the wonderful guys and gals in the rocket business are having to relearn not so much all the science and physics behind big rockets like the old Saturn V, but that they are lacking in experience on such large projects.

Go figure. That's what happens when you drop something for 40 years. It takes a while to remove the rust and get re-polished, so to speak.

But it does come all down to money and will. And let's face it, relative to the United States' wealth, NASA's paltry budget is inexcusable, whether the U.S. in boon or bust.

Inexcusable, unjustified, and unfathomable is the lack of enthusiasm for the space program by the American People. Especially when one seriously ponders what America could do in space if she put her mind and wallet into it.

2024 would be fine by me. Or even 2030. But if we don't build a moonbase by '30, then someone else will and it'll probably be the Chinese.

 

[Geoduck2]

When President George W. Bush gave the "Moon, Mars, and beyond" speech we were all happy, but there was nothing (not one thing) about how it was going to be paid for. Right from the get go I knew it wasn't going anywhere.

I can't even say I was happy about it. Like you I knew that without money it was just another Bush lie. Another grand vision for space with no real plan or intention to complete it. What's worse was that they weren't even clever about it. I looked at it and it showed all the signs of a plan thrown together not to be the best, but the cheapest. Apollo v2 designs that broke no new ground. Components selected with an eye to getting votes in the next election rather than doing the job well.

As to the original question about a lunar base by 2024: not from the US. There might be one in that time frame but the occupants won't be speaking English or calling Houston.

 

[Polishguy]

I got this idea to make the moon base easier to launch, but is it possible...

Before I give the idea, I'll say I have no experience with astronautical engineering. I'm in High School.

To make the moon base a one-or-two launch deal, how about we take our Ares V, and add more SRB's to the side until the payload is maybe 300 tonnes? The ability to just take one or two launches for a whole base might reduce costs.

 

[TranquilityBase43]

Mr. Moderator.....I understand what u and the rest of ya'll are saying about getting off topic...but in truth....politics are the root of the topic when it comes to a moon base in 2024 or any other time in the future!!! Truth is we have the technology to git-er-done even if we have to combine new technology with the old!! The bottom line in doing it and any other projects is MONEY!! That is where the politics comes in because it is the politics and the politicians that control if and when this moon base ever comes to past...which it will not as much as we all want it to happen!!! Not until this world becomes more stable politically...and that includes the idea of us and China working together on...well....anything for that matter!!!

 

[drwayne]

Moderator Hat On:

It is NOT permitted to discuss/disagree/argue with moderator directives within the forum. Pathways for expressing
an issue with a moderator decision are presented in the "Community Guidelines" link near the top of the forum page.

Moderator Hat Off

 

[samkent]

To make the moon base a one-or-two launch deal, how about we take our Ares V, and add more SRB's to the side until the payload is maybe 300 tonnes?

The main reason is we don’t have AresV. We don’t even have the money to design a paper Ares V. It’s the same basic reason we have not gone back in 40 years.

 

[marcel_leonard]

To make the moon base a one-or-two launch deal, how about we take our Ares V, and add more SRB's to the side until the payload is maybe 300 tonnes?

The main reason is we don’t have AresV. We don’t even have the money to design a paper Ares V. It’s the same basic reason we have not gone back in 40 years.

The fact of the matter is that you can make excuses for anything...........Once we gain the political will build a permanent outpost on the Moon; we will find away to do so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs4cRRMc ... re=related