Approaching Iapetus - what makes it two-faced?

[vogon13]

I will admit to being somewhat out of step with ideas regarding the rapidity of the Iapetan coalesence from the primordially chaos.<br /><br />My analysis is that the proto-Iapetus may have been rather 'pokey' about sweeping up all the materials destined to be incorporated into itself. Considering the large volume these materials were distributed in, and Iapetus' rather pokey orbital velocity, I suspect Iapetus of being the solar system's slowest accreting major satellite, not one of it's fastest.<br /><br />In view of this, the decay heat of Al27 and other 'primoridal' isotopes was radiated from a vastly larger surface area of the proto-Iapetus and all the 'chunks'. Iapetus, in my view, is uniquely 'cold formed', among all the solar system objects. <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi Vogon,<br /><br />So you think that Iapetus is a much smaller version of Jupiter's giant Callisto?<br /><br />Also do you think Rhea, might be differentiated or homogenous, being only slightly<br />larger & more massive than Iapetus, but of course, very much closer to Saturn?<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[jaxtraw]

Just wandering a bit off-centre of topic and into slightly cranky territory perhaps, I wonder if we should consider the sub-Titanian major satellites of Saturn as 3 pairs of twins- Mimas/Enceladus, Tethys/Dione and Rhea/Iapetus. On that basis, Iapetus is in a very strange orbit, but then it's a very strange body. So I wonder if its oddities; the Voyager Mountains, Cassini Regio are related to what kicked it out far beyond the orbit of Titan.<br /><br />All the other satellites are small, beaten up and perhaps quite distinct from Titan and the "Six Twins". All in all, the Saturn system is very strange, especially considering the magnificent rings. Are they the remains of Titan's twin? <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />I'm just shooting breeze here because the two gas giants either side have a similar major satellite family- Jupiter has two pairs of twins Io/Europa, Ganymede/Callisto and Uranus has two also- Ariel/Umbriel, Titania/Oberon. Indeed, it's been suggested (can't find the link now, serious scientific paper though) that a Galileo type mission would be feasible to Uranus, because its satellite system is like the Jovian one "in miniature".<br /><br />Or more than likely I'm just seeing patterns in clouds. Pareidolia is a many-splendored thing <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br />Edit: what I'm getting at here is maybe satellites around gas giants like to form in pairs.

 

[vogon13]

I have spent much time with Iapetus and I have not had the slightest inkling, hint or glimmering that Iapetus has ever been anywhere other than greatly distant from Saturn.<br /><br />In fact, so many characteristics of Iapetus, to me, <i>prove</i> it's in situ lineage, that overwhelming evidence would have to be some how 'magically' created at this late juncture to convince me otherwise.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Glad to see you are still feeling better.<br /><br />As regards to Callisto and Rhea, I dunno.<br /><br />{LOL, I spend all my free time contemplating the mysteries of Iapetus because it is sooooo interesting. Callisto and Rhea are just so pedestrian.}<br /><br /><br />{or, an alternative theory, I am demonstrating a form of the savant thing, and it only works on Iapetus}<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi Vogon.<br /><br />Thank you, I am still struggling a bit with my health, but am feeling much better now.<br /><br />It is interesting that you think Iapetus had formed from cold accretion. <br /><br />Using that logic, I wonder if Jupiter's Callisto, might had too? IMO though, Callisto is far too large,<br />but we do know, that Callisto is a homogenous object & that Iapetus may be too.<br /><br />Certainly Iapetus should be a priority on the manifest for the extended Cassini mission.<br /><br />Certainly Titan, Hyperion, Enceladus, Dione & Iapetus, those five.<br /><br />Hi jaxtraw,<br /><br />I noticed the size pairings too, but from a different view point to yourself, but size<br />brackets of the moons in question.<br /><br />Ignoring the very largest & small fry, here are my observations:<br /><br />Large moons.<br /><br />In size order largest first (diameter). <br /><br />Titania: 1,576 KM / 980 miles. Uranus system. <br />Rhea: 1,530 KM / 950 miles. Saturn system. <br />Oberon: 1,522 KM / 945 miles. Uranus system. <br />Iapetus: 1,467 KM / 912 miles. Saturn system. <br /><br />Size difference between the four is only 109 KM / 68 miles.<br /><br />Mid sized.<br /><br />Charon: 1,271 KM / 780 miles. Pluto system.<br />Umbriel: 1,170 KM / 727 miles. Uranus system. <br />Ariel: 1,158 KM / 719 miles. Uranus system. <br />Dione: 1,120 KM / 696 miles. Saturn system. <br />Tethys: 1,060 KM / 658 miles. Saturn system. <br /><br />Size difference. 211 KM / 112 miles. <br /><br />Smaller moons.<br /><br />Enceladus: 500 KM / 310 miles. Saturn system. <br />Miranda: 472 KM / 293 miles. Uranus system. <br />Mimas: 392 KM / 243 miles. Saturn system. <br /><br />Size difference. 108 KM / 67 miles.<br /><br />Notice the gaps in sizes between the groups.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[jaxtraw]

Hmm... if you exclude Charon, which maybe should be excluded as the Pluto system is the oddball, all 3 of your groups have a virtually identical differential of around 110km...

 

[vogon13]

Want to have some more fun with moon numerology ??<br /><br />Compare the mass ratios of Titan to Hyperion, and Dione and Tethys to all their little co-orbitals.<br /><br /><br />I think there is more than a little coincidence brewing there.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[jaxtraw]

Sometimes you're no fun at all, Vogon13 <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />Seriously, there's nothing wrong with noting an apparent correlation just so long as one remembers that it's almost certainly coincidence. But it can lead to a discovery. Perhaps (for instance, and I only posit this as an example), satellites tend to be "quantised" due to forming at particular places within an accretion disk due to er, resonances, or something, kind of thing.<br /><br />I still think Iapetus is in an odd kind of a place and it got kicked out there. But I entirely admit that's just speculation <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[vogon13]

I might have you compare the volumes of your moon pairs. Might be a bit more persuasive to find correlations in volumes amongst 3 dimensional objects (spheres) rather than in a 1 dimensional parameter like 'length' . . . <br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[jaxtraw]

Er, volume is directly proportional to radius. (4/3)(pi)r^3 and all that.

 

[MeteorWayne]

It's proportinal, but the volume is cubed compared to the radius, so there's a much larger difference. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[jaxtraw]

Do I win this debate if I can get the ratio e/pi in here somewhere?<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[3488]

Does anyone know when the spectral data, gravity data & the SAR imaging strip of Iapetus <br />will be released?<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

As long as your log is rhythmic <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[anthmartian]

A week later, and this thread still keeps me fascinated!<br /><br />I have updated my Iapetus pages, with images from a newcomer to the boards, "spin0" . He must be as shy as he is talented is all i can say. Because these images, and others he has sent me to feature are fantastic. he has left it for me to show them. Here...<br /><br />http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/iapetusencounter2<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em>"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"</em></font></p><p><font color="#33cccc"><strong>Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away....</strong></font></p><p><br /><br />Click Here And jump over to my site.<br /></p> </div>

 

[3488]

I am not bored yet either Anthmartian.<br /><br />The SAR, gravity, multispectral data, etc should hopefully be released soon.<br /><br />Also I think as we continue to look at the images, returned recently, there will<br />be much more to talk about yet.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

Anthmartian and Spin0<br /><br />Wonderful images.<br />I hope one ridge close to the black-white terminator will be named "Pongo ridge".<br /><br />Best regards.

 

[lysol]

Wow...talk about dry sense of humors on me specficialy saying "Im letting my imagination run wild!"<br /><br />Funky orbit as in a high INC compared to the other moons. <br /><br />And I didn't mean it was entirely hollow so much as being porous. Think about it...wouldn't it make sense to make an interstellar ship simply by inhabitating an existing object?<br /><br />Sorry if taking an imaginative approach to this isnt good enough for the high brow pseudo intellectual talk....Am really curious though if the white fields are a blow out from the inside of the moon.

 

[tdamskov]

Letting your imagination run wild is great - on Phenomena. Here we discuss mainstream science.<br /><br />Actually it's a good question if somehow the white stuff might be deposits from inside the moon. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that kind of activity so it's far more likely the ice came from Enceladus, where the south polar ice geysers have been observed.<br /><br />But it should be noted that there's still no consensus on which material is covering which, dark on light or vice versa. All we know is that the white stuff is most probably O2 and CO2 ice, and the dark stuff is some kind of carbonaceous dust.

 

[anthmartian]

Edited my post, cannot be bothered to challenge statements like that, 2 above. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em>"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"</em></font></p><p><font color="#33cccc"><strong>Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away....</strong></font></p><p><br /><br />Click Here And jump over to my site.<br /></p> </div>

 

[tdamskov]

Very comprehensive and well thought out answers to my questions. Thank you. I now realize I know too little of the mechanics involved in the Laplace effect. Still it's good to see all the arguments spelled out clearly.<br /><br />I agree that what we might be seeing are heaps where one collection point has been shadowing the areas behind it. I'm still puzzled by the extremely rough and cratered terrain on top of the flat ramp, though.<br /><br />Although in retrospect we're seeing is good evidence of ring emplacement, I'm wondering what kind of new evidence we should be looking for - both for and against. For example, what should we expect from the upcoming spectograph and SAR images?<br /><br />The dark/white patterns, the huge impact basin and the ridge logically appears to be connected in some way but even if they aren't, I still feel solving that particular puzzle will also help reveal the true source of the Voyager Mountains. I have a hard time trying not to spend too much time pondering this odd moon <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> .. It's like the key to the puzzle is dangling right in front of us, just out of reach.

 

[3488]

Hi Anthmartian,<br /><br />I too cannot be arsed to rebutt that troll post. It is not about humour, it about the <br />dividing line between Science & Pseudo science. On the SS&A threads, pseudo science is becoming<br />more acceptable with the space end, time dilation, Has science hit the buffers about time, <br />Plank Time, etc type threads beginning to dominate.<br /><br />There is a board for those & it begins with P.<br /><br />We cannot allow that to spread to M&L. Please can we keep at least one board <br />fringe free & scientific?<br /><br />Hi tdamskov,<br /><br />I am not sure that the SAR swathe & spectrograph readings will reveal anything new<br />about the Voyager Mountains, that the high resolution images have not already.<br /><br />True the SAR swathe may reveal the mountain altitudes & slope angles more accurately & <br />I suspect the spectrograph will only show the covering on the mountains, being <br />the same as on the Cassini Regio. Could be wrong though.<br /><br />One of the latest images: Iapetus from 1,319,821 KM. <br /><br />Another impact basin is visible at the 4'O Clock position.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[spin0]

<font color="yellow">We cannot allow that to spread to M&L. Please can we keep at least one board<br />fringe free & scientific?</font><br /><br />Hear, hear! Let's not feed trolls.<br /><br />Hi all,<br /><br />Thank you all for a friendly welcome to SDC!<br />I haven't had the time to post earlier as working with new Iapetus-images has taken my time. Besides my mom taugh me: "Never post until you have red the whole thread first!" So I've been reading - and learning to composite images of Iapetus. AnthMartian has kindly posted my images so far and given me very valuable tips & knowlegde about working with astroimages.<br /><br />Here's my latest image - it's an enhanced new version of that very interesting terminator area of Iapetus. What could those scratches or faults be? How come they are so straight, long and narrow? How deep are they? What process created them? To me it almost looks like the whole moon has been shrunken and it's gotten wrinkled in the process.<br /><br />Big image (1385x4698px), big file (4,56MB) - and you'll have to wait 30s for the download link: http://files-upload.com/files/512964/iapetus_terminator-mos_big.jpg<br /><br />I made this image by compositing, rotating and scaling by hand in Photoshop. I really pushed those raw 512x512 jpeg colour channels to their limits. Sadly it shows in the image too. There's a bit too much colour bleeding, in the end I just couldn't avoid it. Anyway it is pretty impressive image! Next step is to start extending it and create a huge, crisp map of Iapetus' "light side" hemisphere. Maybe even postersize! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nimbus]

Definitely postersize! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>