Babylon 5

CalliArcale · Aug 19, 2004

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />What have you been doing with all your spare time !<hr /></blockquote> Watching "Doctor Who", of course. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

avaunt · Aug 19, 2004

The Kiddies at Adias' play school are watching " Banannas in Pajamas" and talking about B1 and B2. She thinks " Hey, I am older than this crowd, I already got to B7 and B5 " <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

ascan1984 · Aug 20, 2004

What are the cintari doing. They are at war. Not another one. i cant believe it. Is lennier going to go against the rangers?

ascan1984 · Aug 20, 2004

It's over. I cannot believe it. It's over. That was so sad. Wha am i going to watch now. There are no more scifishows left. Thankyou so much everyone for bringing me to babylon 5.

avaunt · Aug 21, 2004

Blakes Seven, springs to mind ! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Though the ending isn't much better !.

ascan1984 · Aug 23, 2004

It was such a sad ending. It was sad to see the DR as an old man. In real life he will never reach that age as he died in the middle of my watching season 1. What a great series. All that is left now are the movies but i feel sad that it is all over. There are no running scifishows that are any good. The only real one is enterprise which sucks. Thankyou everyone fgor brining me to this show. But i do have some questions if i may. 1. Why did londo allow himself to be taken by the keeper 2. Why did lenier defy the a la shock(Rangers) by not letting sherridan out. 3. If leta turned evil why did she go with jakar to go on a trip Babylon 5 explocded. It was so sad to see sherridan leave delenn for the last time. The only thing is that iyt looked like since sherridan came aboard all they did was fighht with certain sections. wars have gone up 100%. Well thankyou again. What's next in terms of dicovering a scifi show.

chip5541 · Aug 23, 2004

Farscape mini coming in October so all is not lost <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Apple movie is suppose to have a trailer up on the 25th I think but there is already something floating around on some P2P servers like bittorrent. I know there was talk not too long ago about a continuation of B5. Jerry Doyle really wanted to do one but JMS and JD don't/didnt see eye to eye on some things so who know now

chip5541 · Aug 23, 2004

Next to the mini the only thing I am looking forward to on Scifi is ghosthunters but that is really not scifi but still very cool.

Aetius · Aug 23, 2004

"Battlestar Galactica" looks like it will be awesome. I have long wanted to see a show that reflected more of a hard sci-fi sensibility. "Babylon 5" seemed like a pioneer in that sense. "Babylon 5" was the greatest sci-fi television series ever made, in my opinion.

CalliArcale · Aug 23, 2004

1. Why did londo allow himself to be taken by the keeper Recall what the regent said to him before dying. He told Londo that the Drakh had placed fusion bombs around many major population centers on Centauri Prime. If Londo refused to accept the keeper, they would be detonated. Millions of Centauri would die, and since it would happen during the unauthorized bombardment by Alliance forces, the Alliance would be blamed. No one but Londo and the Drakh would know why those people had died and who was really to blame. This left Londo no option, since at heart, for all his faults, Londo is a patriot. He will do absolutely anything for his people. That is both his strength and his tragic flaw. 2. Why did lenier defy the a la shock(Rangers) by not letting sherridan out. Because he loved Delenn and knew that if Sheridan died in an accident, Delenn would be available. Lennier is a strong guy, but this was his moment of weakness. He could never have killed Sheridan; he was too strong to succumb to that. But allowing Sheridan to die in a situation where no suspicion would have fallen upon him.... He succumbed to temptation and walked away. It shamed him immensely, however, and that was the moment of his downfall. He wasn't the same person after that. 3. If leta turned evil why did she go with jakar to go on a trip That's a good question. It's one of the threads that JMS left unresolved. I'd love to know more about that! Babylon 5 explocded. It was so sad to see sherridan leave delenn for the last time. The only thing is that iyt looked like since sherridan came aboard all they did was fighht with certain sections. wars have gone up 100%. Well thankyou again. Recall the opening monologue given by Susan Ivanova during the titles for Season Four (I think). "Babylon 5 was our last, best hope for peace. It failed." I think part of the point of the series is that peace never <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

bdewoody · Jun 29, 2006

What's this groups opinion of the Babylon 5 series? It's been off long enough now that I'd like to see them run it again <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Bob DeWoody </div>

Saiph · Jul 2, 2006

I really liked the series, and it is one of the best Sci-fi shows I've ever seen. Loved the politics (the night watch group made my skin crawl) and the emphasis on a subtle shift in power. I never had to ask myself how earthgov got so screwed up, cause you got to see all the little steps. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> --------------------SaiphMOD@gmail.com -------------------"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

CalliArcale · Jul 3, 2006

Nothing can ever supplant Doctor Who in my mind. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> But Babylon 5 comes awfully close. It probably is better than Doctor Who, but I am too fond of Doctor Who to be entirely unbiased on that. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> It's a wonderful series. I'd love to see it back, especially to find out what happened in the Telepath War. That's what I'm most curious about. Alas, I don't think it can be done. The series stands on its actors, and one of the best and most important was Andreas Katsulas, who played G'Kar. Sadly, he passed away recently from lung cancer, a consequence of his enormous life-long affection for tobacco. (Stagehands reported the strangely unsettling experience of encountering a red-eyed alien placidly smoking behind the studio during breaks.) Amazing man. Shortly before his death, he and several of his closest friends (including JMS and Peter Jurasik, known to B5 fans as Londo Mollari) had a dinner party where he talked about what a wonderful life he'd had. It sounds a bit like the dinner party held on the last day of Sheridan's life in the Season 5 finale. Amazing man. Amazing series. I highly recommend it, but it is difficult to watch just a single episode. The best way to watch it is to start with the pilot and work one's way through the whole thing, episode by episode. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

cp28 · Jul 3, 2006

I used to love this show, wish it was shown in reruns somewhere. It used to re run on sci-fi before it became the stargate network(not that there is anything wrong with stargate). I rented the series on netflix over a 1-2 month period once just to relive it as I cant afford the dvd sets.

larper · Jul 5, 2006

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Amazing series. I highly recommend it, but it is difficult to watch just a single episode. The best way to watch it is to start with the pilot and work one's way through the whole thing, episode by episode. <hr /></blockquote> Actually, the best way to watch the series is to watch 1 episode a week for 4 weeks, talking to internet people who are doing the same for the first time. Then, after 4 episodes, wait 4 months before watching another 4. Only in this way will you get the real experience of watching this ultimate series. Ah, the anticipation, the mystery, the endless discussions and analysis of every subtle little detail while we awaited the next set of installments. It was truly an addiction for me. The catharsis when it was finally over was almost incapacitating. I met (online) Gharlane of Eddore and other well known internet personalities because of this series. I got satellite TV just to watch this series. It was in many ways a life changing experience for me. In some ways I pity those who today know B5 only through reruns and DVDs. They will never know the true experience of watching the show when it first aired. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Vote Libertarian </div>

kane007 · Jul 5, 2006

Yes, Babylon 5 was the best SF on television. I would go so far as to nominate it for one of the best television shows of all time! Galactica may replace it, but we'll have too wait and see. When it first aired here in New Zealand they had it running on a Saturday afternoon. I know, the plebs!!! Therefore I did miss a couple of episodes, which left me devistated. No worries, will be getting the complete series on DVD soon. So looking forward to watching an episode or 2 each night.

CalliArcale · Jul 6, 2006

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Well, the DVDs, as usual, have all sorts of "extra" goodies, such as interviews with the cast, that you don't get with broadcast....<hr /></blockquote> I especially like the episodes where they recorded a commentary track. You learn a lot more about it that way. You learn the most from the ones where JMS is doing the commentary, but the ones where the cast are doing the commentary are hilarious -- critiquing one another's warddrobe and performances, and so on. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

dragon04 · Jul 6, 2006

I'm almost embarassed to admit that I didn't like Babylon 5 when I saw the first couple of episodes. I found it extremely cheesy as well originally. I changed my mind as the story developed. Other than the anthromorphic overtones that a technologically inferior Mankind becomes the arbiter and prime protagonist of intergalactic peace, it bacame very engagin to me early on. The genetic tie in with the Membari (sp?) sealed the deal. If you think about it, the series was SOOOOO Tolkein. The two "elder races" fighting their eternal war through proxies was given a fresh and engaging twist. What a great story. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!". </div>

larper · Jul 6, 2006

You know, people have said that before, even during the initial run when we would discuss it online. I just don't see it. I see no Tolkein connection at all except for the Zha'ha'dum/Kazadum homage and the "passing the torch" storyline, which is in no way original with Tolkein. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Vote Libertarian </div>

CalliArcale · Jul 6, 2006

JMS frequently protested the Tolkien comparisons. While he didn't mind the comparison itself, he staunchly maintains that he was not copying Tolkien in any way. Really, what we have here is a perfect example of what Tolkien referred to as a literary cauldron. He wrote that there is a vast metaphorical cauldron. Every time someone writes a story, they do it by taking material out of the cauldron, moving it around, manipulating it, and adding to it. Then, when the story is told, it all goes back into the cauldron -- including the changes the writer made. Every subsequent writer is getting their material from the same cauldron. As a consequence, it is inevitable that all writers are influenced, to some degree, by all previous writers. The underlying story of "Babylon 5" has a lot of very ancient themes and ideas in it. This is part of what makes it so appealing to so many people -- these themes and ideas have remained popular precisely because they are relevant to lots of people. It speaks to the human condition. There are more conscious connections with other writers. JMS is very familiar with Chekov's rules of drama, and is always faithful to them. There is also very little in the series which does not serve a purpose in the larger story. Consider just how freakin' much there is in the series, it's quite remarkable that it's all important! There's very little that can be described as padding. Speaking of Tolkien, though, the biggest connection that I see is the elder races gradually departing for the Rim. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> But again, I don't think this is an intentional link to Tolkien, but rather a natural outgrowth of other elements in the backstory. This is why it makes such good sense in the story; it's not tacked on in any way. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

larper · Jul 6, 2006

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Speaking of Tolkien, though, the biggest connection that I see is the elder races gradually departing for the Rim. But again, I don't think this is an intentional link to Tolkien, but rather a natural outgrowth of other elements in the backstory. <hr /></blockquote> Yeah, that is not a Tolkien concept. It is at the root of all mythology. As mankind pushes back the frontier, there are always the "old ones", the monsters, the gods, the spirits, who move on over the receding horizon as mankind brings in the light. And there are always those who hold onto those old ways despite the advance of enlightenment (Minbari). The Minbari, as advanced as they were, could not throw off the mantle of mythology and their gods and monsters (Vorlons/Shadows). Humans had to expel them so that everyone could be enlightened. It is not Tolkien, folks. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Vote Libertarian </div>

CalliArcale · Jul 6, 2006

And even if it were, Tolkien was quite open about the fact that he was himself drawing from very old sources. It was the cornerstone of many of his essays on writing, especially "On Fairy Tales". The whole point is that we recognize these elements, even if we can't remember exactly where we've seen them before. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

yevaud · Jul 6, 2006

Humans had to expel them so that everyone could be enlightened. Also a common theme in mythology: the civilized cower at the power and glory of the Gods; it takes rude, upstart barbarians to overthrow them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Differential Diagnosis: "I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are." </div>

Saiph · Jul 8, 2006

while it is a bit egocentric that humans became the center of it all, B5 did spin it pretty well. Humans were the only species that was highly adept at comprimising and arbitrating between lots of different cultures due to the diverse cultures amongst our own species. Remember the episode early in the series where we're introduced to all the species religous and cultural heritages? All the other races had really only one, they'd been unified in vision for a long time. Sheridan then took them and introduced them to a huge line of members of all humanities philosophies. So in B5 the humans had a lot of practice building diverse communities, and that's the reason we ended up on top. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> --------------------SaiphMOD@gmail.com -------------------"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

larper · Jul 9, 2006

ARRGGH! Sinclair, not Sheridan. "This is the story of Jeffrey Sinclair". JMS's own words. Sheridan should never have been introduced. Better would have been "The role of Sinclair is now being played by Bruce Boxleitner." Would have made the series much tighter. Anyway, the episode you alude to was in Season 1, and it was Sinclair. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Vote Libertarian </div>

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