"Back To The Future" - could a "time paradox" halt the LHC?

[Smersh]

First of all, here's a story in the Daily Telegraph:

Could the Large Hadron Collider be held back by its own future?

The much-delayed and maligned Large Hadron Collider has been hit by its most outlandish claim to date - it is being sabotaged by its own future.

Forget the far-fetched belief that it will create a black hole, two distinguished physicists have gone even further claiming nature itself is stopping the troubled £4.4billion project from getting off the ground.

In a theory reminiscent of the time travelling film Back to the Future, the theoretical physicists Holger Nielsen, from Denmark, and Masao Ninomiya, from Japan, have concluded that its discoveries could be so "abhorrent to nature" that they are coming back to stop their own creation ...

Full story here.

Here's a link to the scientific paper itself, from the scientists mentioned in the Daily Telegraph article (it can be downloaded in various format's including pdf.) A summary of the paper is shown at the link as well.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0802.2991

Is there any chance this paper will survive the peer review process, does anyone think?

 

[origin]

First of all, here's a story in the Daily Telegraph:

Could the Large Hadron Collider be held back by its own future?

The much-delayed and maligned Large Hadron Collider has been hit by its most outlandish claim to date - it is being sabotaged by its own future.

Forget the far-fetched belief that it will create a black hole, two distinguished physicists have gone even further claiming nature itself is stopping the troubled £4.4billion project from getting off the ground.

In a theory reminiscent of the time travelling film Back to the Future, the theoretical physicists Holger Nielsen, from Denmark, and Masao Ninomiya, from Japan, have concluded that its discoveries could be so "abhorrent to nature" that they are coming back to stop their own creation ...

Full story here.

Here's a link to the scientific paper itself, from the scientists mentioned in the Daily Telegraph article (it can be downloaded in various format's including pdf.) A summary of the paper is shown at the link as well.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0802.2991

Is there any chance this paper will survive the peer review process, does anyone think?

I think it awesome when really really smart people come up with really really stupid ideas.

 

[darkmatter4brains]

[He said that his theories may even provide a "model for God" who "rather hates Higgs particles, and attempts to avoid them”. ]

Classic.

I dunno, I still don't think this tops the Many Worlds Theory, when it comes to wacky ideas.

 

[Smersh]

Yes, I guess this theory is a little ... erm ... outlandish, to say the least. Dr Neilsen is quite highly regarded amongst his peers though, as I understand it. Isn't he one of the founders of string theory?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Bech_Nielsen

 

[darkmatter4brains]

From the wiki site above:

"They suggested that the particle might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could create one, in a fashion similar to the time travel Grandfather paradox."

Seems like there is a flaw here.

Seems like the LHC would actually have to operate at an energy that has a glimmer of hope of even creating a Higgs particle, for this backwards ripple in time to happen.

I'm pretty sure most of the failures have happend when they tried to run at lower energies, which according to theory, wouldn't even be able to create a Higgs.

If this effect were to happen at energies too low for a Higg's particle to be created, well, all the particle accelerators in the world would be breaking.

 

[Broomstacker]

Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, but a refresher course in Logic 101 wouldn't hurt, either! :lol:

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I assume this has something to do with Chronology Protection but, I'm at a loss in understanding all the "shuffled cards" in the paper.

As was stated earlier, considering the recent operating constraints on the LHC, I would assume other accelerators would have encountered this "Higgs Chronology Barrier" (my term) long ago.

 

[yevaud]

Depends. This is clearly a variation of the "Cosmic Censorship" idea, in which nature itself would find any attempt to alter a timeline by traveling back in time to be so offensive, it'd always manage to prevent it.

 

[Fallingstar1971]

Ummm my car didnt start this morning, so I called my boss and told him that a future me came back in time and sabotaged my car......err his car.

So they have ruled out everything else? Seems to me that something as big and as complicated as this would have plenty of room for mechanical failures or mistakes. Why the sudden "time travel"

Lets assume for a moment that they are right. That in the near future we turn this thing on, bad things happen, and a particle goes back in time to stop itself from being created.

So what

What would stop us from trying again, and again, and again?

I would think that in order to fully stop this experiment, you would have to discredit particle accelerators all-together. That means going back to the very first one and causing IT to constantly fail. Only that would discourage people enough to abandon the project.

Anything else just deepens the mystery. And Humans LOVE a good mystery.

Not to mention, if this is true, its proof that time travel to the past is possible. Who in there right mind would give us the keys to THAT?

Star

 

[Jalapenopopper]

what if its true??
its the same concept as a time machine can only provide time travel to the day the machine was made.

I think it will be really funny the day that all these so called "crazy theories" come to fruition and all the people that have been cast out for thinking outside the box will be the ones who lead...just watch...the future is not so far away.....

 

[Smersh]

what if its true??
its the same concept as a time machine can only provide time travel to the day the machine was made.

I think it will be really funny the day that all these so called "crazy theories" come to fruition and all the people that have been cast out for thinking outside the box will be the ones who lead...just watch...the future is not so far away.....

I think I know where you're coming from, particularly as this paper is partly authored by one of the most respected physicists in the world and founders of string theory. The analogy of Galileo and the Roman Catholic Church springs to mind.

As I understand it though, the paper still has to be peer reviewed.

 

[redwine]

no no its not the fact that its time travel,..
its deja vu.. lol stop say that mr carlin, it is deja vu, not vu ja day.. :lol:
whether it be pure nostradomous thinking, or the fact we have psychic abilities, or the fact that the universe starts and ends, and happens over and over?? leaving ripples in time space..
we can see these ripples with our minds..
in these ripples I have seen an intelligent species visits the planet in a time of great hurdling tragedy..
whether it be a huge asteroid, or another species at war.. looking to bring humans to there dismise..
and these other beings feel its time to help us even though we are not ready..
but the fact we can learn and except fate, and evolutionize at the worst times..
ya it takes something real drastic for us to make good change.. instead of chaotice demise..
anyways, I am unaware if it was me that caused the electrical malfunction, but all these people worrying bout black holes.. could of triggered it lol.. im guilty as charged.. lmao
anyways the aliens said it wont cause any damage.. but it will be used in the future to do something to protect us> or wait maybe propell the planet.. or even make new propulsion technology?
welcome to the new age.. where out of the box thinking works.. quantum physics.. in the past it was called crazy and they put you in a straight jacket..

instead now they give you a huge pay check and a ferrari

energy can be controlled by the mind..
ships can be manufactured with the power of the mind..
humans have to do it the hard way..
lets get the work..

so thinking outside the box brings before life to mind..
traveling down some universal pathway kinda curvy like electric..
it intersect with the sun..
then we are placed into vessels on this planet earth?
o sorry i was supposed to stay quiet..
but due to the recent deaths.. and chaos..
grrr cant hold my tongue anymore..
dont rat me out or send me back in time.. i dont wanna be burned alive llol burned dead is ok.. watching the golden demise is interesting.. time travel funny..
no but we can read all the ripples.. and hopefully make a better universe this time around..
by the way (BTW) multiverse it..
why not include death in science? its a part of life lol

 

[MeteorWayne]

redwine:

If you are going to post in the Physics forum, I'd STRONGLY suggest that you post in scientific language rather than flowery word salad posts that have no meaning. Otherwise, they will be moved to the Unexplained, since it is completely unclear what you are trying to say regarding the science of Physics.