Black Holes

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hawking believes that black holes can eventually radiate into nothing. If the universe is doomed to expand forever, then it is likely that the&nbsp;last massive&nbsp;celestial bodies will be black holes. Hawking also believes that information is destroyed in black holes; he has often been ridiculed by other physicists for this statement.But when it really comes&nbsp;down to it, we have no way of&nbsp;knowing&nbsp;whether or not information can actually be destroyed. &nbsp; <br /> Posted by weeman</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>IIRC, Hawking lost the information paradox bet.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[neilsox]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The answer depend on if stephen hawking was right, or not, about "hawking radiation."Basically, if he's right, then there is a way for black holes to slowly (very slowly) radiate their matter outwards in a sort of random, thermal process.&nbsp; You're looking at an insanely long lifespan for a BH, but they will eventually dissipate.&nbsp; The emitted matter will just spread out and act like normal matter.&nbsp;If he's wrong...then there is no method currently devised to cause a BH to diminish. <br />Posted by Saiph</DIV><br />Should I assume that hawking radiation (if any)&nbsp;is mostly electrons, positrons and hydrogen nuclii = protons traveling at a small&nbsp;fraction of c. If so the large black holes may have little net mass loss as they typically recapture the hawking particles while micro black holes would rarely recapture the hawking radiation.&nbsp;&nbsp; Neil

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Should I assume that hawking radiation (if any)&nbsp;is mostly electrons, positrons and hydrogen nuclii = protons traveling at a small&nbsp;fraction of c. If so the large black holes may have little net mass loss as they typically recapture the hawking particles while micro black holes would rarely recapture the hawking radiation.&nbsp;&nbsp; Neil <br /> Posted by neilsox</DIV></p><p>I don't think it has much, if anything, to do with recapturing the particles.&nbsp; It has more to do with the event horizon of larger black holes not creating an atmosphere condusive to particle pair production.&nbsp; With smaller black holes, the event horizon is much closer to the center of mass and therefore the area just outside the event horizon is far more energetic giving the particles the energy they need to be created and/or ejected.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[pyoko]

So in fact, because Hawking Radiation is right now far from a proven fact, these micro-singularities <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">might</span> be permanent, yet too small to interact? If HR is, in fact, wrong. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So in fact, because Hawking Radiation is right now far from a proven fact, these micro-singularities might be permanent, yet too small to interact? If HR is, in fact, wrong. <br /> Posted by pyoko</DIV></p><p>This is true.&nbsp; If i'm not mistaken, without hawking radiation they will not even know if they created them they will be so tiny.&nbsp; Orders of magnitude smaller than a neutrino of which billions (if not trillions) pass through your body every second.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[pyoko]

Surely they can devise some particle 'flyby' experiment to detect such a non-HR micro-singularity, if HR proves to be nonexistent. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Surely they can devise some particle 'flyby' experiment to detect such a non-HR micro-singularity, if HR proves to be nonexistent. <br /> Posted by pyoko</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Well... If a particle emits no radiation, nor does it interact with any other particles, I don't see how it would be possible to detect.&nbsp; Maybe there is a way, but I certainly couldn't tell ya how.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[pyoko]

Gravity may pull a small particle away from its' path, or something. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>

 

[shab]

<p><font size="4">what happens when anything goes into the black hole. where that thing goes? what happens to it?</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 

[KickLaBuka]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>what happens when anything goes into the black hole. where that thing goes? what happens to it?&nbsp; <br />Posted by shab</DIV><br /><br />Black holes are a necessary bi-product of using keplers laws of gravity to explain the tight shape of galaxies.&nbsp; When you consider the electric and subsequent magnetic fields of stars, supermassive black holes become unnecessary.&nbsp; This is not the "accepted" impression.&nbsp; Soak in what you can and decide for yourself.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-KickLaBuka</p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Black holes are a necessary bi-product of using keplers laws of gravity to explain the tight shape of galaxies.&nbsp; When you consider the electric and subsequent magnetic fields of stars, supermassive black holes become unnecessary.&nbsp; This is not the "accepted" impression.&nbsp; Soak in what you can and decide for yourself.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by KickLaBuka</DIV><br /><br />Actually they are quite necessary for anyone who has even a vague understanding of gravity.</p><p>To answer the question, the material that crosses the event horizon is crushedinto elementry particles and beyond&nbsp;and adds to the mass of the black hole.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[deapfreeze2]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Actually they are quite necessary for anyone who has even a vague understanding of gravity.To answer the question, the material that crosses the event horizon is crushedinto elementry particles and beyond&nbsp;and adds to the mass of the black hole. <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />What if black holes don't crush everything? What if it is like a worm hole kind of thing? A portal to another galaxy kind of like a transporter kind of thing....</p><p>&nbsp;I know to much Star Trek and Stargate... lol</p>