Black Holes

rickstine · Jun 18, 2005

When a black hole sucks in light to feed itself.Light would escape,but what happens the the remanding amout of light that is traped in the black hole?When the black stops feeding and dies what happens to the light that is traped?I know that light is engery is neither created or distroyed?Can anyone help clear this up for me?

valareos · Jun 18, 2005

I think your answer to this is Black Hole evaporation. around a black hole, virtual particles of matter and antimatter are created and and destroyed continuously. every so often, they are created so close to the event horizon that the antimatter particle is tossed into the black hole, while the matter particle escapes. The result, the mass of the black hole shrinks! now the energy is still conserved, and all teh energy (light, energy from the matter/antimatter anniliations, ect) are in the black hole, but do not account for the mass. When that black holes mass dips below the threshold to where diameter of the event horizon is equal to the diameter of the actual stellar object, it literally explodes as the pent up energy floods from it at the speed of light. Such an explosion would make supernovas seem pale in comparison. Search space. com for Black Hole Evaporation <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

rickstine · Jun 19, 2005

I know how black holes dissapear but,a small percent is no were to be found,which means that light went somewere else or it defies engery can be neither created or distroyed,which can't be possible,so at the moment I have to just think to myself about this t'll more proof can be found.We should all remember the universe works in odd ways in which defies all logic of understanding.

Saiph · Jun 22, 2005

light is a form of energy. Energy itself cannot be created or destroyed dueto the conservation of energy laws. However, light can be created, and destroyed, because it is merely a form of energy. Energy transitions between forms all the time. The energy bound up in an electrons orbit is released as a photon (light is created) and the photon travels. Somewhere it interacts with something, transfering it's energy to that object, and the photon is destroyed. That energy though, is now storedin the object, and continues. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> --------------------SaiphMOD@gmail.com -------------------"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

R1 · Jul 9, 2005

so if we dump just enough antimatter into a black hole, can we shrink it just to the point where we can start to see it? this brings up another thought, what if a hole is made up mostly of antimatter, in other words an anti-hole. are there such things as anti-holes? if matter is found to be more abundant than anti matter, could it be that the reason for that is that anti-matter has a greater tendency to form a hole than matter? could matter have a greater tendency to form a star, while anti-matter finds it easier to get carried away and form a hole. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

R1 · Jul 10, 2005

is the net charge of the hole contents irrelevant too? (like a hole made up of mostly positive protons or one of mostly negative ones?) if so does that mean holes must have a zero electrical charge? (for all purposes outside of the horizon) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Saiph · Jul 11, 2005

well, considering that black holes are likely to be charged, and in all likelyhood they are spinning...that's the standard BH in reality. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> --------------------SaiphMOD@gmail.com -------------------"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

alokmohan · Jul 11, 2005

Antimatter in black hole,too much sir.

majornature · Jul 13, 2005

I think your answer to this is Black Hole evaporation. around a black hole, virtual particles of matter and antimatter are created and and destroyed continuously. every so often, they are created so close to the event horizon that the antimatter particle is tossed into the black hole, while the matter particle escapes. The result, the mass of the black hole shrinks! Acceptable explanation about the evaporation of black holes... but can there be an explanation about "white holes" ? Where do these white holes come into play? True knowledge exist in knowing that you know NOTHING!!!! /safety_wrapper> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> We are born. We live. We experiment. We rot. We die. and the whole process starts all over again! Imagine That! <img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /> </div>

majornature · Jul 13, 2005

You mean you never heard of the term "white holes". White holes or anti-black holes are the opposite of a black hole. In other words it observed to be where trapped light goes after a black hole dies and form what is uncertain to be what's called a "white hole" (anti-blackholes) which was a "theory thought" of finding a new universe. White holes have been talked about before, mostly as mathematical curiosities. There is no evidence these "anti-black holes" exist, whereas scientists have solid evidence for the presence of black holes. But soon scientist will research more on these white holes. For more on "white holes".... Type in the search engine "white holes" on: www.space.com True knowledge exist in knowing that you knowfont color=black> NOTHING!!!!/safety_wrapper> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> We are born. We live. We experiment. We rot. We die. and the whole process starts all over again! Imagine That! <img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /> </div>

chew_on_this · Jul 14, 2005

Would be interesting if white holes ended up as quasers(quasi-steller-objects.) Just a thought.

MBA_UIU · Jul 14, 2005

I attended a lecture at U of I on light theories where the first thing that was said is that light is indeed particles. Part of what was talked about can be seen here http://www.omsriram.com/Helical%20Travel%20of%20Light.htm I was not a part of the class so I could not forward and questions but here is one that I have. Recently black holes have been shown to emit all kinds of radiation. This went against pervious theories that nothing could escape a black hole’s grasp. Could this effect also provide proof that light is a particle that rides on waves of radiation? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /> </div>

nexium · Jul 14, 2005

We can point our telescopes at a few places where we think there is a black hole. The evidence is indirect. Most hypothesis reguarding black holes are mathematical, based on a large number of unproven assumptions. My guess is the radiation that we can detect from blackholes comes from the acreation disk, not from inside the event horizon. We have not detected Hawkings radiation as it is typically tiny compared to similar radiation from the accreation disk. We have not detected the the rapid evaporation from extremely tiny, low mass black holes. In theory a ten solar mass black hole losses something like a billionth of it's mass per billion years. We expect that black hole eat lots more mass than this, so all medium and large black holes are likely geting bigger and more massive. Only the tinyiest blackholes (if any) will ever explode, and the explosion will be less impressive than a super nova. Neil

chew_on_this · Jul 14, 2005

...and the energy and material being ejected by them are thought to be the consequences of their huge accretion disks. I assume you mean acceleration disk...

chew_on_this · Jul 14, 2005

So are acceleration disks there copernicus. Look it up. I think eddie can speak for himself.

chew_on_this · Jul 14, 2005

It appears the two are synonymous.

Saiph · Jul 14, 2005

Well, the only places I see using "acceleration" disk terminology are non-professional sites (geocity sites, etc). The term used in the literature and in the field (I know, I've worked in it) is accretion disk. While people will figure out what you mean by acceleration disk, accretion disk is the correct term. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> --------------------SaiphMOD@gmail.com -------------------"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

chew_on_this · Jul 14, 2005

I've seen it in many scientific papers and online publications. Regardless, they mean the same thing.

labguy · Jul 14, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />I've seen it in many scientific papers and online publications. Regardless, they mean the same thing. "Less artsy, more fartsy" - Homer<hr /></blockquote> No, you haven't. At least not in any "scientific paper" written by anyone beyond 8th grade. It is always ACCRETION disk. I have about 90 websites bookmarked on just black holes and there is never any accelleration disk mentioned at all.

labguy · Jul 14, 2005

PS Post: If you would like to learn a little something about black holes, search on and learn the following: 1. 2GM/c^2 2. Event horizon 3. Photon Sphere 4. 3GM/c^2 5. Ergosphere 6. Ring singularity 7. Hawking (not Hawkings) radiation. 8. Vacuum fluctuations 9. Virtual particles 10. Quantum tunnelling 11. A-c-c-r-e-t-i-o-n disk 12. Information paradox 13. Casimir effect 14. Many, many more!

chew_on_this · Jul 15, 2005

Ok, I didn't expect the spanish inquisition on this ridiculous arguement. Here is a paper which will dispel your 8th grader notions. Hope it isn't too complicated for you. I'll be happy to present more if it isn't enough. http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/9311/9311031.pdf

chew_on_this · Jul 15, 2005

Just to clarify why this question first came up. From the brief time I spent perusing different sites, I assumed the acceleration disk was a component of the accretion disk, where the "action" takes place. It appears this may be the case but isn't referenced by all as such.

labguy · Jul 15, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Ok, I didn't expect the spanish inquisition on this ridiculous arguement. Here is a paper which will dispel your 8th grader notions. Hope it isn't too complicated for you. I'll be happy to present more if it isn't enough. http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/9311/9311031.pdf <hr /></blockquote> You are on two different subjects. That article is about formation of GALAXIES and the acceleration of matter in the protogalaxy as it forms. It mentions acceleration several times and "disks" as spiral galaxies are formed, but it doesn't use any term as "acceleration disk". An ACCRETION disk is found around massive objects collecting infalling matter. Such as a white dwarf accreting matter from a companion star and gaining mass; some of them become a Type Ia supernova. Neutron stars can accrete matter from a companion and collapse further to a black hole. Black holes can accrete matter from surounding areas and increase in mass and angular momentum. All of these are "accretion" (forming accretion disks) and are completely different from any example of an accelerating protogalactic cloud of matter. For white dwarf stars, neutron stars black holes and even binary stars, where one has expanded beyond its Roche Lobe, the proper term is accretion, not acceleration. Someone may use the term acceleration disk somewhere regarding infalling matter aroumd massive objects, but your link didn't work. And, since it wasn't too difficult for me, please go ahead and provide more links with the term acceleration disk as you said you would be happy to do. It would be nice if the link(s) had anything to do with the subject here, which is BLACK HOLES. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_disk P.S. Should probably look up "Roc

chew_on_this · Jul 15, 2005

First you say, That article is about formation of GALAXIES and the acceleration of matter in the protogalaxy as it forms. It mentions acceleration several times and "disks" as spiral galaxies are formed, but it doesn't use any term as "acceleration disk". Then, Someone may use the term acceleration disk somewhere regarding infalling matter aroumd massive objects, but your link didn't work. Make up your mind, did the link work or not? Use the search function in the .pdf and you'll find the term. As you said yourself, the term is used of accelerated matter falling into a massive object. 'Nuff said.

labguy · Jul 15, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Then, Someone may use the term acceleration disk somewhere regarding infalling matter aroumd massive objects, but your link didn't work. Make up your mind, did the link work or not? Use the search function in the .pdf and you'll find the term. As you said yourself, the term is used of accelerated matter falling into a massive object. 'Nuff said. <hr /></blockquote>No, not "Nuff said". When I said that someone may use the term acceleration disk when actually referring to accretion disk, I meant that they might use it, but it would be wrong. The link didn't work because it was not anything to do with the subject of stellar evolution, with 4 possible end results for a star's final state, 3 of which include accretion. But, as someone said before, we know what you meant, so go ahead and use your term if you want. Use it as an answer on a test and it would be marked as wrong. After all, this IS a forum on "Space Science & Astrology". You know what I mean. Will this thread ever continue to be about Black Holes?

Black Holes

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