Can we use the asteroid apophis as an outpost

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8603103a

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Re: neilsox's post

Ok, i agree with your concept ,i think this may work if the tech advances.But,i think we need to simulate it in pictures.
 
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MeteorWayne

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I think you need to get a grip on reality, physics, and real funding, costs, and ROI....
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

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MeteorWayne":1rzsemxt said:
I think you need to get a grip on reality, physics, and real funding, costs, and ROI....
Yep. I don't really see an asteroid outpost happening before a moon outpost, but those are still at least 10 years away depending on which space program you're talking about. And the NASA budget is an incomprehensible mess so who knows where NASA will be in 10 years. It's all pretty confusing right now and it will take some time before they work out a plan. The asteroid mission may not even come to fruition.
 
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EarthlingX

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csmyth3025

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Yuri_Armstrong":1x32n34q said:
Yep. I don't really see an asteroid outpost happening before a moon outpost, but those are still at least 10 years away depending on which space program you're talking about. And the NASA budget is an incomprehensible mess so who knows where NASA will be in 10 years...
I have to agree that the Moon is the next logical step in space exploration/exploitation. At the risk of drawing the ire of the "Mars First" crowd, I have to point out that living on the surface of Mars is just as lethal as living on the surface of the Moon. On Mars, spacesuits will not be optional attire.

The Moon provides us with a relatively close site to develop and refine our in situ resource technology. Once we're able to extract metals, oxygen and (hopefully) water there, it will be a lot easier to build and launch expeditions to Mars and beyond due to the combination of lesser gravity and no atmosphere.

That said, I still believe that a LEO space staion will be needed for some time as a staging area to collect and assemble the larger ships and cargos needed to set up and resupply a viable lunar base.

It would be nice if NASA, the ESA, China, Japan, and other public and private sector institutions would pool their efforts to develop and fund a multi-decade plan for space exploration. This doesn't seem very likely, though.

Chris
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

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Again, Apophis is nowhere near big enough for something like that, nor does it come close enough to us to make it a viable candidate. Notice how in the picture he said Eros, which on the other hand, is a lot bigger and a more viable candidate for an outpost.

Why are you dead set on making Apophis our destination for station?
 
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SteveCNC

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8603103a":1c69lkvs said:
i mean the apophis asteroid colony will slightly similar to the picture
http://www.nss.org/settlement/calendar/ ... lony_2.htm
Thats a pretty cool picture , makes you wonder if it could really be done . The part that would worry me most about a colony on something like that that it's orbit would carry it through some dark teritory as far as potential impacts go . And something that big your not going to have anything like control over where it goes your just along for the ride . Only a nuclear reactor could power a place like that since sunlight is unreliable at best and at worst your nowhere near close enough to the sun to get effective light even if you were pointing at it . Seems like an awful lot of potential disaster and not enough potential value IMO .

The other thing that would be a problem I would think is asteroid composition , if there's loose debris on it's surface it probably won't be very stable and an object that size would probably produce a extremely weak gravity field which wouldn't help with stability of the surface debris . You would first have to do a lot of cleanup work on your asteroid I am guessing .
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

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SteveCNC":4xwi2wtq said:
8603103a":4xwi2wtq said:
i mean the apophis asteroid colony will slightly similar to the picture
http://www.nss.org/settlement/calendar/ ... lony_2.htm
Thats a pretty cool picture , makes you wonder if it could really be done . The part that would worry me most about a colony on something like that that it's orbit would carry it through some dark teritory as far as potential impacts go . And something that big your not going to have anything like control over where it goes your just along for the ride . Only a nuclear reactor could power a place like that since sunlight is unreliable at best and at worst your nowhere near close enough to the sun to get effective light even if you were pointing at it . Seems like an awful lot of potential disaster and not enough potential value IMO .

The other thing that would be a problem I would think is asteroid composition , if there's loose debris on it's surface it probably won't be very stable and an object that size would probably produce a extremely weak gravity field which wouldn't help with stability of the surface debris . You would first have to do a lot of cleanup work on your asteroid I am guessing .
Don't forget to watch your step when you go outside. Don't jump too high :lol:
 
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8603103a

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Re: yuri armstrong

apophis is nearer than eros,so we will save a lot of cost and fuel.
 
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MeteorWayne

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Re: yuri armstrong

8603103a":ctyhq441 said:
apophis is nearer than eros,so we will save a lot of cost and fuel.
What is your obsession with Apophis?
It would take less propellant to get to the moon (which has more gravity, and probably accessable water and constant sunlight available at the poles, near the water) than land on Apophis, due to it's high relative velocity.
The Apophis close approach is in 2029, and there's a chance (admittedly small) that 8 orbits later it might smack into the earth. Seems like a poor idea to me.
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

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8603103a":3vmygwan said:
Sadly the facebook culture strikes again.

If you are as serious about space exploration as I and many of the rest of us here are, then it is not enough to go and click "support" on facebook or make some online petition. You should read up on the subject some, a few good books would be "Interplanetary fight: an introduction to astronautics" by Arthur C. Clarke, "The Case for Mars" by Robert Zubrin, "The Starflight handbook" by Eugene Mallove, and for some really optimistic reading "The giant leap" by Adrian Berry. There may be some advanced technical concepts in them but for the most part they are in terms that anyone mildly interested in spaceflight can understand. I'm sure there's countless other similar books out there. I'm 17 and was able to understand it all so I think you should be fine.

I also suggest that you read up on manned space history some, getting a manned mission BEO has only happened during the Apollo program and it's going to take a lot to get us to an asteroid, the moon, Mars, or wherever else. And if you really want to be commited to the space program then get good grades, go get an engineering degree in college, and join the military if you're looking to be an astronaut pilot.

If reading isn't your thing then watch the documentary "When we left Earth: The NASA missions". Plenty of good information there as well.

As I said earlier, what the space program needs is COMMITMENT from the young generation (us). Do not be fooled by the facebook culture that makes you think you are helping a cause when really you are not.
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

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SteveCNC":2jvvohvq said:
Yeah I like that one , here's a free link
when we left earth
Exactly what I was talking about. Sadly it seems like the citizenry has become complacent and cynical. Most people my age have no interest in anything remotely regarding science, and it seems like more people now actually think the moon landings were somehow faked. What NASA needs is not facebook groups or online petitions, they need engineers, geologists, doctors, biologists, chemists, pilots, and and adventurers. They need people with "The right stuff" as they call it.

So I'm going to encourage our Apophis fan here to devote himself to math and science and to work for NASA one day and plan these types of missions.
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

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Re: yuri armstrong

8603103a":sp6hea5y said:
ok,I agree your idea.
If you're foreign then it would be a good idea for you to try and learn both English and Russian. Those two are a MUST for anybody working in the space industry.
 
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SteveCNC

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I guess that depends on the field Yuri , I've been working in aerospace for about 30 years but I only speak a little german , french , japanese , and I'm fair at spanish . But point is I work with english only , the rest is recreational . Although I do plan to get good at japanese soon , would like to visit there someday . Of course if you get into a career like mission planning you might be needing that russian after all since for a little while they are the main game in town .
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

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8603103a":s1o4ixzi said:
If we colonize Apophis,we will beat the Russians.
That's now how it works. Most space ventues nowadays involve at least some cooperation between various agencies. And I'd be willing to bet that our future missions BEO will probably involve some assistance from the Russians. So it's not about beating them any more, it's about working with them. And learning Russian will be important for anyone on the actual mission if that's what you are planning to do.

If what you're looking for is competition then that is likely to come from China, not Russia.
 
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HopDavid

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Yuri_Armstrong":wzem1lq7 said:
If you are as serious about space exploration as I and many of the rest of us here are, then it is not enough to go and click "support" on facebook or make some online petition. You should read up on the subject some, a few good books would be "Interplanetary fight: an introduction to astronautics" by Arthur C. Clarke, "The Case for Mars" by Robert Zubrin, "The Starflight handbook" by Eugene Mallove, and for some really optimistic reading "The giant leap" by Adrian Berry.
To that I would like to add Mining The Sky by J. S. Lewis.

When it comes to accessible resources and surface area, the small bodies dwarf their larger cousins. Lewis makes a good case against planetary chauvinism.

I've been an asteroid guy for a long time, probably more years than 8603103a.

However, at this time, even the NEOs are hard to reach.

Yes, there are some that infrequently come near the earth. But what delta V does it take?

8603103a, if you want to contribute, study calculus, trig, physics. Here are two orbital mechanics books:
Fundamentals of Astrodynamics by Bate, Mueller & White (very inexpensive).
Orbital Mechanics by Prussing and Conway.

Some fundamental concepts: Delta V, Launch Windows, The Rocket Equation.

I believe there are some preliminary efforts we need to make before the asteroids become accessible.
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

Guest
Yes, that is the one I had forgotten about. Mining the Sky is a great book about the resources and benefits we would achieve from space mining.

Based on his posts I assumed 86a was foreign, so that's why I reccomended him to learn to speak english or russian fluently. You only need to know both if you intend to become an astronaut.
 
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