Debris punched hole in Atlantis during STS-115

[jamie_young]

Shows its not just foam you have to look out for.<br /><br />http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15134114/<br /><br />and the report it was taken from....<br /><br />http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4848

 

[qso1]

Jamie_Young:<br />Shows its not just foam you have to look out for. <br /><br />Me:<br />Thats for sure, there was some debris sighted alongside Atlantis during the mission but that debris appeared to be co-orbiting with Atlantis. This hole appears to have come from a micrometeoroid hit rather than anything orbiting with Atlantis. It even appears to have struck at nearly a 90 degree angle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

Shutle Guy posted that yesterday on the STS-115 thread. Didn't have the picture though.<br /><br />I would be interested in knowing what 1-17 are though, I remember hearing it wasn't as clean as a lot of orbiters when it returned but no details. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[thinice]

If micrometeoroid or whatever it was breached radiator, but did not come through the panel, it should be inside the payload bay door now!

 

[ysl007]

With the MMOD damage done to the Orbiter , will Discovery's Launch be put on hold or held back ? As i understand that there's a need for an backup orbiter for STS 300 Missions should emergency occurs during the 116 Mission .

 

[bdewoody]

It's amazing to me that with all the time the shuttles have spent in orbit that this is one of the biggest strikes to hit one. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">Shows its not just foam you have to look out for.</font>/i><br /><br />It also seems like a good argument for limitting EVAs as much as possible. Can you imagine something like that hitting an astronaut's body while outside the Shuttle or ISS?</i>

 

[docm]

All the more reason to get really agressive on RoboNaut development. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

shuttle_guy:<br />A very high velocity hit by MMOD will make a hole that appears to have been caused by a 90 deg impact even if the angle of the impact is somewhat shallow.<br /><br />Me:<br />Interesting. I would have expected an oblong hole for shallow impact but you mentioned somewhat shallow. Have there been impacts to the inner PLB doors before? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[tomnackid]

I think this shows the wisdom of small, robust, heat shields that are kept completely covered for most of the mission for long duration spacecraft--like a moon or mars bound vessel. At least until we develop some system that is both light and robust.

 

[tplank]

Do they factor this in when it comes to shuttle orientation in orbit? Seems like a hit on the thermal tiles is much worse than elsewhere. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>The Disenfranchised Curmudgeon</p><p>http://tonyplank.blogspot.com/ </p> </div>

 

[henryhallam]

Well, the entry hole was only 3mm diameter. Granted, this is in Al (?) panel.<br /><br />If it had hit an astronaut then he or she would have had a bad day but might have survived as long as it wasn't in an unlucky location. Similar to a small bullet wound I would guess.

 

[ldyaidan]

What would be involved in creating 1 or more robotic systems that are designed to clean up this trash? Seems like it would pan out to be cheaper than having another accident, or repairs..<br /><br />Rae

 

[tomnackid]

I believe the report I read said that based on the speed of impact it was more likely a micrometeoroid rather than debris.

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">It's amazing to me that with all the time the shuttles have spent in orbit that this is one of the biggest strikes to hit one.</font><br /><br />Anything larger than a few inches shows up on military radar -- and they can dodge to get out of the way. It's the small stuff that can't be detected by ground radar that presents the real hazard.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">I think this shows the wisdom of small, robust, heat shields that are kept completely covered for most of the mission for long duration spacecraft--like a moon or mars bound vessel. At least until we develop some system that is both light and robust.</font><br /><br />Keeping it covered sure as heck helps to keep it safe during the ascent to orbit. But once Orion is on orbit, I'm wondering what would prevent a micrometeoid from penetrating the protective covering and compromising the heat shield?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[tomnackid]

For all but the last few minutes of a mission--just before reentry--the heat shield of Orion will be covered by the service module.

 

[scottb50]

Was anything recovered rattling around inside? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">For all but the last few minutes of a mission--just before reentry--the heat shield of Orion will be covered by the service module.</font><br /><br />Ah, yes -- of course. Thanks for the reminder. I do manage to ask goofy questions every now and again. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[scottb50]

No the MMOD vaporized as do most small high speed MMOD hits....<br /><br />That would seem to imply that shielding could be pretty simple. I don't know the thickness of the reflective surface, but if penetrating a solid surface vaporizes the object it should be simple to use a multiple layer shield. An outer skin with an inner core, to contain the remains of the object, and an inner skin to protect the structure.<br /><br />Water comes to mind, an impact that penetrates the outer skin could be contained by water between the layers, as it freezes it would plug the hole. If you combine that with what is needed to reduce radiation exposure for a crew you could solve two problems of extended missions in Space. <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

The biggest risk to an astronaut on EVA would be depressurization of the suit. A very small leak might be survivable, or temporarily pluggable (eg with a finger) but a big hole could be fatal fairly rapidly, not least becuase depressurization will quickly render the astronaut unconscious and unable to assist in his/her rescue.<br />.<br />Sidenote: the safest orientation with respect to MMOD which shuttle_guy mentioned is upside down and tail first. Tiles are exposed, but damage to those is less likely to be instantly fatal. The delicate RCC panels, however, are protected, as they face forwards (or, during orbital ops, backwards -- away from the direction of travel). The idea is to use the massive (and at that point relatively expendable) SSMEs as a shield. They face into the direction of travel.<br />One exception to this: the Orbiter has no control over its orientation while docked to the ISS. It is at the whim of the station. The station's orientation is such that the Orbiter will travel belly-first. If memory serves, while docked to the forward port of Destiny, the Orbiter's tail is pointing "down" (towards Earth) and the nose is pointing out into deep space.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[brandbll]

Wouldn't it depend on whether there was something there to block the hole afterwards, like skin? I remember this coming up one time when an astronaught's glove got punctured once. Said astronaught didn't even realize what happened til they got back inside the shuttle and saw the blood. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

I would think it would be more like in the Sea Hunt show where they shoot into the water. The bullet slows quite rapidly in a few feet and falls to the bottom. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[scottb50]

I would think water would rapidly slow it rather than build up in front of it to magnify the imact on an inner wall. If it vaporizes after impacting the first layer of defense then the debris would be the only concern. Say an object penetrates the outer layer and a vacuum exists between the outer and inner layer it would not be slowed beyond what it was going through the outer layer. I don't immediately remember the name, but the vehicle that crashed in Utah used aerogel and trapped particles, some fairly large. Water would have the same effect. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shydn]

They should be more careful I guess.