And the modules that are still to be launched add no new capability - they just duplicate what's already up there.<br /><br />NASA's spending a huge amount of resources to "finish" this thing. I'm sure the Russians are happy to let NASA do it while they put their energies into next-generation products.
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You remind me of the Monty Python "Argument" sketch - no it isn't.<br /><br />Do you have any actual information to contribute? What experiments will the Japanese modules perform other than human biology studies?
<font color="yellow">ISS lacks that clear articulation of purpose and direction that can stand up to scrutiny.<br /><br /><font color="white">No it doesn't. The ISS is designed to find out what happens to stuff if you don't have gravity. That direct enough for you?</font></font>
What makes you think I haven't already looked it up?<br /><br />http://iss.sfo.jaxa.jp/kibo/kibomefc/index_e.html<br /><br />The list of experiments includes the usual set of "micro-gravity" stuff (that nobody cares about anymore) and life science experiments.<br /><br />You tell me - what does Kibo add that is not already on the ISS?
what's the matter Dave, you're very acidic today 
<br />maybe you should go out this weekend, I recomed Dragon's Room in the Church Street area in Orlando. Quite upscale to suit your fine taste. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>
<br />maybe you should go out this weekend, I recomed Dragon's Room in the Church Street area in Orlando. Quite upscale to suit your fine taste. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>I don't blame you for being vague. Even NASA's own strategic objectives state:<br /><br />"Focus research and use of the ISS on supporting space exploration goals, with emphasis on understanding how the space environment affects human health and capabilities, and developing countermeasures."<br /><br />Nobody's talking about growing crystals in space or perfectly round ball bearings anymore. It's all been scaled down to how people respond to the space environment. Bolting on another pressure module isn't going to help those guys take each other's blood pressure.<br />
Thats NASAs science. ESA and JAXA arn't NASA. Just pointing out that NASA isn't the whole story.
I agree that this is NASA's view.<br /><br />The original question had to do with the shuttle and the ISS each creating the need for the other. I'm sure that the Japanese people will be sitting on the edge of their seats breathlessly following the exciting exploits aboard their science module (if it ever gets off the ground). And the US has the obligation to launch it (until we say we don't), but these additional modules don't support any objectives that the US taxpayers are paying for.<br />
"However najaB and his new wife will vist me."<br /><br />Wish I could be there with y'all.<br /><br />Now that I have my new truck though, I am thinking about some non-hurricane related road trips.<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>
no,it's not a gay bar, if that's what you're into you should ask CrazyEddie for tips on hot spots <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />sorry about the transfer. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>
CEV teams? that's kinda cool. you'll get to see it take shape and such, right? it could certainly be interesting.
Don't worry, they wouldn't let you in anyway...<br /><br /><br /><br />other places in O-town I liked are Zinc and Sky Bar. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>
<font color="yellow">"Darn, what will I do with all the beer I bought???? "</font><br /><br />I feel confident you'll find a solution. I predict that the later stages of your idea will involve kidneys somehow.
<font color="yellow">"I plan to just help out with planning the CEV. "</font><br /><br />Do they have any need for some idiot whose spent several months and hundreds of hours researching modern semi-ballistics and their potential COTS subsystems? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />
<font color="yellow">"...you are far from an idiot. "</font><br /><br />Wasn't refering to intelligence. I was referring to what you'd call someone who spends such an incredible amount of time and effort on what amounts to a complicated mental exercise... <br /><br />Boy that Matt -- he's pretty smart, but what kind of an <b>idiot</b> does that to himself? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />
"Darn, what will I do with all the beer I bought????"<br /><br />Hmmm, wonder if we can evacuate from Katrina (and the Waves) that way??<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>
> I want to get back to launching Shuttles in 4 or 5 months.<<br /><br />4/5 months will fly by (no pun intended). Keep your head up, you're too important to let management get to you.
now that you're working on the Completely Execrable Vehicle, why don't you make a good contribution and suggest to management that they copy the Kliper instead of trying to design some crappy capsule. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>
With apologies to zavvy for stealing her entire post on this.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"> "Space-Ferry May Be Ready By 2010 <br /><br />LINK <br /><br />Russia, Europe, and Japan may jointly develop a crewed spacecraft called Kliper to ferry as many as six astronauts to and from the International Space Station. The spacecraft could launch as early as 2010 - just as NASA retires its space shuttles. <br /><br />The three space agencies are in discussions to develop the craft, which is intended as a replacement for Russia's Soyuz spacecraft. Soyuz has been the workhorse of Russia's human spaceflight programme, but is based on 40-year-old technology. <br /><br />“Soyuz works and works but the components are becoming obsolete," says Alan Thirkettle, head of the development department at the European Space Agency's (ESA’s) human spaceflight and exploration directorate. <br /><br />The craft carries three people and can stay docked to the International Space Station for just six months, but the Kliper may transport twice as many and could stay in orbit for up to a year. Officials estimate the first uncrewed flight could take place in 2010, with the first crewed flight in 2011. <br /><br />Billion-dollar craft <br />That timing coincides with NASA's plan to retire its space shuttle fleet in 2010. "The fact that the shuttle is retiring means there needs to be a human crew transportation system in place," Thirkettle told New Scientist. <br /><br />NASA is developing a shuttle replacement called the Crew Exploration Vehicle, which it hopes to launch by 2014, but has said it does not want international governmental cooperation on the project. That has "shoved" Europe into searching for an alternative spacecraft to ensure "we'd always have access to space", says Thirkettle. <br /><br />ESA is hoping to secure about €50 million ($61 million) from its governing ministers in December to develop a preliminary design, as well as financial and legal agreements for the project over the next two years.</font>
So that's why we're spending $5billion a year for the next 5 years flying the shuttle to the ISS - so that the Europeans can fly there in their $1billion Kliper.<br /><br />I hope the US taxpayer at least gets a kiss in the morning to go with the boinking.
The boinking amounts to less than $1.00 per week per each taxpayer for ALL of NASA's budget. Even if it were some $3.00 per week for ALL of NASA's budget, the $5 billion would then be the $1.00 per week, or about the cost of some two regular sized candy bars.<br /><br />Now, what do we get for this? Well, there are really a lot of things, but I personally don't really care. What I get is the knwoledge that my government, the United States of American is a country that keeps its word. When we brought these other countries into this project we made a contract with them to finish the ISS to core complete. We could, of course just chuck it. Heck, anyone, or any country can go back on its word. But then what happens if the same country wishes to cooperate with the other countries again? Do we really have NO honor here. <br /><br />But, you know, that wasn't even what I was answering here. You keep talking that the ISS has no real purpose, but at least to these others (who, admittedly don't have the kind of funding levels of NASA) it HAS. So the simple fact is that you are wrong once again!<br /><br />Neither the CXV, not the Kliper will actually be able to carry up the many billions of dollars worth of already completed parts now waiting for the ISS, only the current STS system can do that. This also includes laboratories bulit and paid for by these very partners, who are then duty bound to share any discoveries or knowledge obtained by them with the US, maybe that is going to be part of the kiss?<br /><br />Or the CXV gets built and really reaches its potential to reduce the high cost of placing human beings into LEO, and part of that very justification is to place Americans and others on the ISS, then when it is further used by Burt Rutan and company to open up LEO to space tourism, then maybe that could also be part of the kiss?<br /><br />I will readily admit that I am talking about benifits that we do not yet know will actually make up every penny spent by the Am
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