ESA says 'No' to Clipper

[tohaki]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Interesting. Chicago is quite a populous town.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>According to Wikipedia the City of Chicago had a population of 2,896,016 in 2000. So, the infamous "Eurocracy" is actually very modest.<br /><br />The choice of comparison was the original posters hometown, by the way. I'm not trying to make any points about Chicago or the US.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Not that I don't admit that there is a large bunch of subsidized "God knows what they've been hired for" employees in American cities, but... How many officials does the city of Paris employ nowdays, anybody know? (Munich, AAmsterdam, London, etc...) Last I bothered to check (1999) it was a 10% of the Paris pop. , about a quarter of a million. Never mind the EU, the EU administration is just a cherry on top of that pie.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>This is even more off-topic, unless the point being made is that joint programmes with ESA will sink because of the number of city workers in Paris and München... and somehow I doubt that.

 

[gofer]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>According to Wikipedia the City of Chicago had a population of 2,896,016 in 2000. So, the infamous "Eurocracy" is actually very modest. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />So? Paris's population is 2.15 million. Quite comparable? Paris is a part of Europe, I think...<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>This is even more off-topic, unless the point being made is that joint programmes with ESA will sink because of the number of city workers in Paris and München... and somehow I doubt that <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />The point being made (by me, as set off by your remark about Chicago) is that European cities administrations are quite bureaucratic. The EU is just a reflection of this policy. And so is the ESA. And that's how they do things. Social programs, and what not. <br /><br />Note that *you* brought up the city of Chicago for no apparent reason (what does it have to do with spaceflight? and the Klipper specifically) <br />

 

[tohaki]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>So? Paris's population is 2.15 million. Quite comparable? Paris is a part of Europe, I think...<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>Comparable to what? Chicago is not the subject here, the EU is. If you want to compare the EU to Paris instead to proove that the EU bureaucracy is small then go ahead. The conclusion remains the same.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The point being made (by me, as set off by your remark about Chicago) is that European cities administrations are quite bureaucratic.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>Ok... why are you making that point?<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The EU is just a reflection of this policy.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>Except the numbers just said otherwise.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>And so is the ESA.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>Based on what? I think ESA accomplishes a lot on a limited budget.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Note that *you* brought up the city of Chicago for no apparent reason (what does it have to do with spaceflight? and the Klipper specifically)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>I used the Chicago numbers to show a poster from Chicago how small the EU bureaucracy really is.<br /><br />Why are you reacting like this?

 

[tohaki]

To get back to the subject, where does this leave ESA's Atmospheric Re-entry Experimental Vehicle (AREV) project? They recently decided to use the shape of the Kliper:<br /><br />http://62.189.48.33/Articles/2005/11/22/Navigation/200/203100/Europe+selects+Kliper+look-a-like+for+testing.html<br /><br />Perhaps they should change it to a capsule (like ARD)?

 

[themanwithoutapast]

'To get back to the subject, where does this leave ESA's Atmospheric Re-entry Experimental Vehicle (AREV) project? They recently decided to use the shape of the Kliper.'<br /><br />As stated above by someone else, the decision not to fund the 50MM study does not mean that there will be no ESA involvement in the Kliper project. The point is Dordain and the ESA management want to be involved, now they have to cut a better deal with the Russian Space Agency to present the member states. If negotiations turn out well and the Russians are reasonable, Dordain's statement that a decision to participate might well be reached before June 2006 could turn out right.<br /><br />Having said that, because ESA itself was and is still determined to take part in the Kliper project it still makes sense to use a scaled Kliper-look-alike for the AREV test.

 

[peterweg]

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/spacetravel-05zzzzl.html<br />Seems that the haggling and discussion is still at an early stage.

 

[holmec]

good link. Finally a "champion" (thats some crazy management or marketing talk) for the project to drive it through. <br /><br />--Go Jean-Jacques Dordain, Go----Go Jean-Jacques Dordain, Go----<br /><br />That's hard to chearlead! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

>"A final decision has not been taken but neither has a negative decision. This is very important for us," Anatoly Perminov, head of Russia's federal space agency, said.<<br /><br />How do you like that. Indecision is positive!? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[tohaki]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>--Go Jean-Jacques Dordain, Go----Go Jean-Jacques Dordain, Go----<br /><br />That's hard to chearlead!<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>Perhaps Jay-Jay would suit an American tongue better? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />