Explosion/deaths @ Mojave Air/Space-port

[jschaef5]

2:3 is not a good ratio. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

What is "Unconfirmed, unsubstantiated, second hand"?<br />

 

[PistolPete]

The news gets worse.<br /><br />According to this latest update on SDC it appears that the death toll has risen to three. No word as of yet on the condition of the other three. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[Testing]

It means I cannot back up my statement from any other source. It comes from a spouse of someone who was there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Testing]

They had not started flowing yet, test vessle was being filled. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Testing]

Two criticle, one serious, alll multiple shrapnel wounds. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[PistolPete]

I've seen a lot of shrapnel wounds. It's amazing how a small piece of metal hitting a seemingly non-critical part of the body can cause so much damage. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[nwade]

So far I've stayed away from comments about blame, but given all of the focus on Rutan in this thread I would like to point out that (a) He wasn't there, and (b) Its a company effort. Scaled composites is composed of a bunch of people with wide-ranging skills and talents. It takes a team effort amongst those people to do what they do. Both success and failure is shared, and cannot be laid entirely upon the doorstep of any one person.<br /><br />And as for the comments about NO instability: Those conditions under which it becomes explosive or dangerous are not just tied to its exposure to specific materials; but are also dependent upon heat, pressure, and mixing ratios. Listing off a bunch of other elements with which it can react does not present the whole story. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be treated with care and proper safety measures - but one incident should not cause a knee-jerk reaction that makes everyone want to throw up their hands and call this motor technology a failure. As others have pointed out, there are plenty of accidents involving pressurized gases each year around the world - many of which are considered relatively benign and not "rocket fuel".<br /><br />Take care, <br /><br />--Noel<br />

 

[spacefire]

but...considering what scrutiny Scaled is under for being the herald of the age of space tourism, I'd say this accident is a serious setback for space tourism in general. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[docm]

I'm not so sure. That'll depend on the results of the investigation.<br /><br />The sad part is that no matter what standards Scaled, NASA or anyone else sets it takes just one employee who had a bad night making a mistake to cause a tragedy like this, perhaps days before when the tanks/hoses/fittings were last cleaned.<br /><br />Hubris not necessary on anyone else's part. <br /><br />Anecdote;<br /><br />Long ago I was involved in just such an incident while we were doing a pulmonary angiogram, a procedure not unlike a heart catheterization. <br /><br />Back then (the 60's) such procedures were not always done in special procedures suites that had OR amenities, so oxygen tanks were wheeled in from storage for the case. <br /><br />When mounting a 5' O2 tank to the wall rack a nurse neglected to properly hook the safety chain that prevents the tanks from falling over. Needless to say when someone bumped into it the tank fell to the tiled concrete floor.<br /><br />Its neck snapped off and off it went; smashing through the wall, through a patient dressing room, an office and out into the parking lot. Fortunately no one was killed, but we were all scared s***less.<br /><br />Was it the hospital administrators fault? NO! It was the fault of a nurse who had been out partying the night before. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[baktothemoon]

Not quite the news about SS2 we've been waiting to hear.

 

[frodo1008]

I don't really think that anyone here is blaming Burt Rutan. Right now what is needed is not blame, but an effort to find out what really happened.<br /><br />Heck, an inert gas such as helium can become explosive at a high enough pressure and temperature! And while NO is not nearly as reactive as NTO4, it is in the same general chemical grouping, and its use here is evidently as an oxidizer. If even a relatively benign oxidizer is somehow forced to oxidize rapidly enough, it become an explosive!<br /><br />While I am not ready to attach any blame one way or the other here, I can say that people should NEVER take anything for granted in this particular industry!<br /><br />I know that in the six years or so that I handled even more dangerous chemicals in the testing area at Rocketdyne, I never took anything for granted. That is one of the reasons that I am still here to enjoy my retirement!<br /><br />

 

[jimfromnsf]

"Was it the hospital administrators fault? NO! It was the fault of a nurse who had been out partying the night before."<br /><br />It was the hospital administrators fault for having an environment where employees weren't performing to standards<br /><br />It was the hospital administrators who boasted that the other hospitals were death traps

 

[propforce]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I think that ALL of us can agree that whatever was being done it is self evident that it WAS NOT safe! <br /><br />Burt Rutan and his people need to find out what went wrong, and then see to it that it can't happen again! <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Frodo, I don't know if you remember back at Rocketdyne in the early 90s where they had a fire/ explosion in a lab, killing 3 Ph.D. chemists and a couple of technicians. This was when Rocketdyne was venturing into the solid & gell propellant formulation.<br /><br />I didn't know all were involved and killed then, but another Ph.D. chemist I was working with at the time knew them well, having worked together for decades. It was through him that I became appreciative of a personal connection with such tragedy . It was more than an institutional fault-tree investigation when human lives were lost, especially when they are your friends. <br /><br />We are a relatively small community of "family" for those of us who deal with these 'controlled explosion" business. We know that $hit still happens despite all safety precautions we take and we don't take any test lightly. <br /><br />Yet everyday there are many small companies, esp. in the mojave area, "pioneering' in innovative aerospace propulsion technologies venturing into unknown territories. The mojave area is a hotbed for aerospace innovation, then X-1, X-15 and now with Scaled, and a bunch private ventures, etc. Our imagination is not limited by what comes off the factory floor. We hot rod cars and we certainly hot rod rockets. They are the ones who bring us the "break through" ideas, inspire us to dare to dream again. <br /> <br />Without occassional failures, their successes would not be possible. We are sorry for their loss when human lives are involved. But we encourage them to move on, continue the innovative pioneer spirit that Southern California is known for, and the whole world awaits to be i <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jschaef5]

"Without occassional failures, their successes would not be possible."<br /><br />Failures where human lives are taken are not a necessary part of innovation. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nwade]

Small update with a statement from Scaled on their website:<br /><br />http://www.scaled.com<br />

 

[docm]

<font color="yellow">Failures where human lives are taken are not a necessary part of innovation.</font><br /><br />So said the man who'd still rather walk across the continent <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br /><br />Life is continuous innovation, and sometimes innovation is risky. Most of the safety devices on cars came about as a result of racing, and people die doing that too. Would you prefer not having rear view mirrors, disc brakes etc. etc.?<br /><br />I prefer not to wrap myself up in a cocoon and crawl under a rock in fear. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

Thanks propforce, as usual a very excellent post!!

 

[radarredux]

Well said propforce!

 

[Testing]

You want the real story? About 1990 a senior scientist (one person in a blast room) was mixing something which went unstable. He was able to get it far enough away that he only lost an arm. The next incident involved two senior scientists and a Propusion Systems Techniciain. The initial story was an experiment. After the FBI got involved it came out as an attempted disposal of unstable explosive (or propellant) by burning which went bad for two scientists and badly burned a Technician (and former co-worker) smart enough to stand off. One batch was burned and the second was added to a hot pot. Lets close this subject or move it elseware. This is a matter of public record so get it straight. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Testing]

WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS THAT WE LEARN FROM GREAT LOSSES OR FAILURES AND PERSEVERE. DO NOT BE DISHEARTENED. AND REMEMER THOSE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO OUR GAIN. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nwade]

New posting on the front page of Scaled's website. Injured employees are named, as well as plans for support funds to help the grieving and injured:<br /><br />http://www.scaled.com<br /><br />--Noel<br />

 

[steve82]

Update.<br />FAA is rethinking Mojave Airport certification as a "Spaceport".<br />There was also another (non-fatal) explosion earlier in the summer.<br /><br />http://www.avpress.com/n/06/1206_s4.hts

 

[billslugg]

"Witt said the FAA has asked airport officials to dream up possible launch vehicle scenarios, imagining various types and amounts of propellants and devising safety plans for dealing with those chemicals."<br /><br />"I'm not in the business of dealing in stories; I deal in fact," he said.<br /><br />In other words the FAA wants them to do a Potential Problem Analysis. A standard Kepner Tregoe technique. Heavily used by NASA, and a big reason for NASA success.<br /><br />Mr. Witt is in deep denial, is lashing out, using an appeal to authority.<br /><br />His failure to anticipate various scenarios has caused these problems. I say pull their certificate until Mr. Witt can get recalibrated or relocated. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>