Heat resistant tiles on orbiter....why so many & why so small?

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rdc058

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<p>Hello everyone, I'm new here and I appologize if my title question is a stupid one.</p><p>See, this is something that has always nagged at me and I've not yet found an answer, and I'm just plain curious. It seems to me that having thousands of little specially shaped tiles each with it's own serial number corresponding to the exact location it goes on the orbiters fuselage nose and&nbsp;underside......is un-nescessarally complicated. Would it not make better sense to have the tile material shaped into larger pieces so there are MUCH fewer of them? I've often wondered why, .....that the orbiters underside.....as an example....could not consist of only 10 to 15 large-shaped sections of heat resistant material instead of (hundreds?)......of 5X5 inch pieces.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;Obviously there is good reason because it has worked all these years......I'm just wondering if something different had been explored in the begining of the STS program.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Anyway, I just discovered this site and I suspect I'll learn a lot here! As an "arm-chair-space-buff"....I know VERY little and I promise not to be to much of a nuisance with goofy questions....I'll regulate myself to a lot of reading!<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif" border="0" alt="Cool" title="Cool" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Thank you!</p><p>Russ</p>
 
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shuttle_guy

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hello everyone, I'm new here and I appologize if my title question is a stupid one.See, this is something that has always nagged at me and I've not yet found an answer, and I'm just plain curious. It seems to me that having thousands of little specially shaped tiles each with it's own serial number corresponding to the exact location it goes on the orbiters fuselage nose and&nbsp;underside......is un-nescessarally complicated. Would it not make better sense to have the tile material shaped into larger pieces so there are MUCH fewer of them? I've often wondered why, .....that the orbiters underside.....as an example....could not consist of only 10 to 15 large-shaped sections of heat resistant material instead of (hundreds?)......of 5X5 inch pieces.&nbsp;&nbsp;Obviously there is good reason because it has worked all these years......I'm just wondering if something different had been explored in the begining of the STS program.&nbsp;Anyway, I just discovered this site and I suspect I'll learn a lot here! As an "arm-chair-space-buff"....I know VERY little and I promise not to be to much of a nuisance with goofy questions....I'll regulate myself to a lot of reading!&nbsp;Thank you!Russ <br />Posted by rdc058</DIV></p><p>The tiles are different thickness as well as unique in shape. The thickness&nbsp;is driven by the heat experienced at that location. The shapes are unique inorder to keep the delicate tiles from breaking as the aluminum structure to which they are bonded expands and contracts during flight. This tile design (with&nbsp; about 30,000 tiles) is the best solution to this egineering problem. </p><p>Another reason for the small tiles is that&nbsp; if a large tile was used and the tile was damaged then the entire very expensive tile woulr have to be replaced.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hello everyone, Thank you!Russ <br />Posted by rdc058</DIV><br /><br />Welcome to Space.com, Russ.</p><p>shuttle_guy is one of our Shuttle experts, and answered your question.</p><p>Feel free to ask more questions and learn. You acn also learn a bunch by reading through many of the existing threads. Enjoy!</p><p>Wayne</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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rdc058

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The tiles are different thickness as well as unique in shape. The thickness&nbsp;is driven by the heat experienced at that location. The shapes are unique inorder to keep the delicate tiles from breaking as the aluminum structure to which they are bonded expands and contracts during flight. This tile design (with&nbsp; about 30,000 tiles) is the best solution to this egineering problem. Another reason for the small tiles is that&nbsp; if a large tile was used and the tile was damaged then the entire very expensive tile woulr have to be replaced. <br />Posted by shuttle_guy</DIV><br /><br />Thanks shuttle_guy. I appreciate your answer, I understand better now.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Russ</p>
 
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rdc058

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Welcome to Space.com, Russ.shuttle_guy is one of our Shuttle experts, and answered your question.Feel free to ask more questions and learn. You acn also learn a bunch by reading through many of the existing threads. Enjoy!Wayne <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />Thanks for the freindly welcome Wayne!&nbsp; The movie "Apollo 13" back in 1995 is what really sparked my fascination with space/NASA.</p><p>I have in fact have done a lot of reading here for&nbsp;many hours before I registered and I must say the wealth of information here is staggering! </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Russ</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
 
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tanstaafl76

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks for the freindly welcome Wayne!&nbsp; The movie "Apollo 13" back in 1995 is what really sparked my fascination with space/NASA.I have in fact have done a lot of reading here for&nbsp;many hours before I registered and I must say the wealth of information here is staggering! &nbsp;Russ&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /> Posted by rdc058</DIV></p><p>Has it really been that long since Apollo 13 came out?&nbsp; Geez I feel old.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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gawin

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hello everyone, I'm new here and I appologize if my title question is a stupid one</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The only stupid question is the one never asked.</p><p>&nbsp;Welcome to the forums <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> This is probably the best place any where around to get get answers. There are many folks here with incredible knowledge and insider information and have a talent for taking that info from science info and putting it into English that is understandable to the rest of us :)&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
 
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aphh

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<p>What about the material of the tiles?</p><p>I remember seeing a image, where somebody is holding a tile in his his/her hand, that has been heated up to red-hot temperature. This has to mean, that the material does not conduct heat very well and thus isolates the body beneath the tiles from the scorching temperatures of re-entry. </p>
 
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shuttle_guy

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks for the freindly welcome Wayne!&nbsp; The movie "Apollo 13" back in 1995 is what really sparked my fascination with space/NASA.I have in fact have done a lot of reading here for&nbsp;many hours before I registered and I must say the wealth of information here is staggering! &nbsp;Russ&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by rdc058</DIV></p><p>I must say this site had much more content before it was "improved" and many posters never returned, however it is slowly coming back.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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shuttle_guy

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What about the material of the tiles?I remember seeing a image, where somebody is holding a tile in his his/her hand, that has been heated up to red-hot temperature. This has to mean, that the material does not conduct heat very well and thus isolates the body beneath the tiles from the scorching temperatures of re-entry. <br />Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>That is correct. The structure under the tiles is aluminum so it must be kept below 200 deg F. Above that temp it starts to loose it's strength very rapidly which would cause bad things to happen.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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Bytor_YYZ

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What about the material of the tiles?I remember seeing a image, where somebody is holding a tile in his his/her hand, that has been heated up to red-hot temperature. This has to mean, that the material does not conduct heat very well and thus isolates the body beneath the tiles from the scorching temperatures of re-entry. <br /> Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>Silica &nbsp; SO2 </p>
 
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vulture4

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That is correct. The structure under the tiles is aluminum so it must be kept below 200 deg F. Above that temp it starts to loose it's strength very rapidly which would cause bad things to happen. <br /> Posted by shuttle_guy</DIV></p><p>The tiles are stiff and expand little with temperature, the aluminum structure flexes and expands and contracts. If the tiles were much larger it be difficult to bind two such different materials together.&nbsp; The criticality of the heatshield also varies greatly with location. The OMS pods were originally covered with larger white tiles, which came off numerous times without severe damage, but have now been replace with flexible blankets. The black tiles protect the hotter areas under the wing and body; in at least one case a black tile was lost, and the skin beneath it did "slump" somewhat. However the Columbia, in which the damage was in the carbon-composite leading edge, caused actual melting of the inconel leading edge spar. There was no actual skin between the leading edge and the spar; I believe the modifications includesome insulation in this area.</p><p>Sometime after Columbia researchers at Ames announced a new flexible blanket, made of carbon composite with heat resistance similar to the RCC leading edge. This could eliminate the risk of impact damage to the relatively brittle rigid reinforced carbon leading edges. But of course that assumes we still want to build reusable spacecraft. </p>
 
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willpittenger

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Sometime after Columbia researchers at Ames announced a new flexible blanket, made of carbon composite with heat resistance similar to the RCC leading edge. This could eliminate the risk of impact damage to the relatively brittle rigid reinforced carbon leading edges. But of course that assumes we still want to build reusable spacecraft.</p><p>Posted by vulture4</DIV><br />Anyone who doesn't want to end up with fully resusable spacecraft belongs in an asylum.&nbsp; Such spacecraft might not be practical for a long time, but I think it will happen. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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