I don't mean to keep contradicting you. I know what you mean about a snowflake. But it's really not a fair comparison. "Ultimately, it is the temperature at which a crystal forms — and to a lesser extent the humidity of the air — that determines the basic shape of the ice crystal" or snowflake. So on the one hand you're right. Something inanimate "knew" just what to do. But it's just a natural process. A result of what happens to an extremely cold water droplet when it freezes onto a pollen or dust particle in the sky. Just as it is a natural result of vinegar and baking soda to foam up when mixed, or crystalline structures that form in caves as a result of cooling liquids in rocks. And the natural result of a multitude of other things that happen when certain conditions are met. That's the physical world in action. Change the conditions and elements or chemicals react to form other elements or chemicals, and obviously they take on different forms and characteristics. Simple reactions.Just a thought, maybe you don't need the whole system first. Consider a snowflake, an extremely intricate and beautiful thing. The whole thing was built from only a few simple properties and rules of engagement of a simple 'part' a water molecule. This didn't need a "structure, formatting, an operating system to run on, an architecture to process it, a source," and billions of lines of coding. It built itself from the bottom up. It's complexity from simple.
There are other examples that do this eg fractals and cellular automata, but these do need a computer.
I prefer to believe that life built itself up to great complexity from just the relatively simple rules of engagement of the initial ingredients - just like the snowflake. If you can get something as complex as a snowflake from a simple water molecule, what can you get from all the 92 elements and the already pre-existing organic molecules with all there multitude of rules of engagement? These original organic molecules also formed without code etc, they self-assembled, so why not keep getting more and more complex from the bottom up until life arises?
As for any coding I suggested in post 8 that 'order' is inherent in the environment and has always been there.
I'm working my way down the page, so I won't reply to your latest posts until I get there. Agreed, great discussion
The difference is that life - in a way - defies the laws of the natural world and becomes something completely different. Try to freeze me and my body, as long as it's alive, tries to remain at a certain temperature because its alive. "All living organisms share several key characteristics or functions: order, sensitivity or response to the environment, reproduction, growth and development, regulation, homeostasis, and energy processing. When viewed together, these eight characteristics serve to define life." And nothing else does all those thing, most everything else besides life do almost none of them. I'll keep this one short and give you a chance to read everything. I know I can sometimes ramble on. My apologies.