International Space Agency (ISA) - Request For Public Ideas

[north_star_rising]

General Public Comments And Input Is Respectfully Requested, Thank You!<br /><br />International Space Plane (ISP) Program<br />Internationa Advanced Gound Based Assisted Launch System Program<br />http://www.international-spaceplane-program.org<br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/isp_letter_feb_2004.html<br /><br />International Space Agency (ISA)<br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/wash_dc_letter_feb_2005.html<br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/esa_letter_feb_2004.html<br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/color_flyer_2005.html<br /><br />Here are the core elements, which we hope and need to address in our proposal on an Electromagnetic Launch Facility & Program.<br /><br />We need any open public replies by the 20th of May 2005, and this does not have to be in-depth and in detail, just core issues and program elements, Thanks.<br /><br />The following week of 23rd to 27th of May, 2005 we would expand on and refine these core issues and program elements, and comments and any input from the general public.<br /><br />This finished proposal must be ready to be submitted to NASA Exploration Directorate and our NASA HQ Sponsor no later than 30th or 31st of May 2005.<br /><br />1) Basic System Elements & Design & Configuration<br />( Low Tech. Metal Rail & Wheel with High Tech. EM Propulsion )<br />( Launch Ramp at or near 45 degrees, Concrete & Steal Construction)<br /><br />2) Best or Proposed Locations for System / Facility<br />( Mountain Location On or Near Earths Equator )<br />

 

[grooble]

For 2 - location, Instead of building it up a mountain, wouldn't it be safer, cheaper and easier to maintain if you kept the track at ground level? <br /><br />Maybe make the track a little longer or the craft engine more powerful to make up for what must be only a minor performance gain of a mountain launch. Just have the track curve upwards at the end.<br /><br />The construction cost would be cheaper and quicker too.<br /><br />So how about a flat desert location? Like the last Thrust vehicle used to break the land speed record.

 

[spacefire]

how about a big vacuum bottle? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[north_star_rising]

1) grooble: "For 2 - location, Instead of building it up a mountain, wouldn't it be safer, cheaper and easier to maintain if you kept the track at ground level?"<br /><br />1) ISA Reply: grooble, this would be true, a flat location would be safer, cheaper, and easier to maintain if you kept the track at ground level!? However, a ground level track does not give the correct and optimum and most efficient angle for launch, which would be around 45 degrees, and does not fully utilize the high altitude, which a mountain launch site would provide, to its advantage.<br /><br />2) grooble: "Maybe make the track a little longer or the craft engine more powerful to make up for what must be only a minor performance gain of a mountain launch. Just have the track curve upwards at the end."<br /><br />2) ISA Reply: "grooble, firstly making the craft engines stronger means bigger engine, more structure, more fuel, meaning more mass! This totally defeats the whole purpose of an EM Launcher System. An EM Launcher on a 45-degree angle on the side of a Mountain on the Equator, will give much more than a minor performance gain! An EM Launch system does not relate to any unneeded fuel or propulsion system, extra mass, to be carried by the Launch Sled or RLV/SSTO Vehicle. Also the Sled & Vehicle can take advantage of low drag at its release point at the top of the mountain, and will enter higher altitudes much faster at a 45-degree angle of climb. Having a track curve up at the end with the Launch Sled and Vehicle going between 1000mph and 2000mph would be a very big disaster, as this would cause G Forces of a 100+! This would instantly kill (Liquefy Actually!) the crew and totally destroy the Launch Sled, Vehicle, and even Ramp! Not a good option! ;-) Hmm! "LOL.."<br /><br />3) grooble: "The construction cost would be cheaper and quicker too."<br /><br />3) ISA Reply: "grooble, cost and time are relevant issues! The Golden Gate Bridge, and Bridges of this Scale, take 4 or 5 years

 

[north_star_rising]

spacefire: "how about a big vacuum bottle?"<br /><br />ISA Reply: spacefire, that is a good idea, and is one concept, which is being looked at. This approach would not be surfaced based, but a concrete reinforced tunnel at a 45-degree angle up through and inside a mountain. The problems our people have seen with this approach are the following things.<br /><br />1) The tube structure and reinforcement to hold the low-pressure environment would be very massive in scope, scale, and resources, even to the large vision of the ISA Organization.<br /><br />2) The exit port would be open and the challenges of providing containment as the Launch Sled & Vehicle transits up the tube, and finally leaves the tube, is a hurdle in technology application. it could be done with a massive high speed opening door at the end of the tunnel or using and manipulating static forces to repel away the air molecules from entering the low pressure environment of the tunnel, which both I have been told could possibly be done?!<br /><br />3) However, the largest hurdle to overcome in this approach, and is the most daunting from this approach and method; would be that the Launch Sled and Vehicle would slam into standing air mass as it left the confines of the Tunnel and its low pressure environment. This drastic change in air pressure, and resulting air resistance would create large impact forces, and generate instant high temperatures on the exterior of the vehicle. These issues are what keeps a tunnel with vacuum approach, an unlikely candidate for this effort & program, and has daunting barriers, which with present or near term technologies & science cannot be sufficiently addressed or solved.<br /><br />However!; Surface launch up the side of a Mountain on the Earths Equator, although still dealing with air resistance, is doing so in a uniform and manageable way. This is the most likely candidate for this effort & program, and even tough it too has hurdles; at least in the presen

 

[grooble]

Back to number 2.<br /><br />Do you have a preferred continent?<br /><br />Some of the african equitorial nations (Congo, Uganda) are in current conflicts and i'd question whether there is the local infrastructure available in those nations to pull off the construction effort. Although i might be wrong on that. But i wouldn't choose Africa myself.<br /><br />Then there is the south american nations, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador. I'd rule out Colombia immediatly because of the awful security situation, and the drugs and FARC war.<br /><br />Out of the remaining 2 i'd choose Brazil. Brazil are desperate for economic development and investment. <br /><br />Brazil has well developed mining and manufacturing sectors, with a large number of labourers. This would be good for the construction. The mining expertise and machinery would be used for the mountain section.<br /><br />The highest peak in Brazil is the Pico da Neblina at 3,014 m. <br /><br />Maybe that could be a candidate site? Although i don't know of the political and legal restraints on the area, it could be a national park or something.<br />Update: I just looked it up, it seems to be a national park so it is probably out of the equation.<br /><br />Following 9 highest points in that region -<br /><br /><br />Pico 31 de Março 2992m <br />Cerro Marahuaca 2890m<br />Monte Roraima 2810m<br />Monte Roraima-Tri Point 2739m<br />Kukenan-tepuí 2650m<br />Ilú-tepuí 2621m<br />Pico Cadorna 2596m<br />Cerro Guanay 2556m<br />Auyan-tepuí 2510m<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[CalliArcale]

I agree; Brazil seems the best candidate. It's also one more likely to be amenable to the concept, what with their budding space program.<br /><br />Of course, there is one major problem with the rail concept, and that's that you do not have much choice for your orbital inclinations. The rail defines your inclination. That's not neccesarily a killer for the entire concept. After all, Israel's Shavit launches are restricted by the political situation to a very narrow range of <i>retrograde</i> orbits, and yet they don't stop launching their own satellites.<br /><br />You'd want to explore what inclination is going to be the most profitable. (Or what selection of inclinations will be most profitable, if you can afford to build multiple rails.) I'm not sure what that would be. Anyone have any ideas? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[north_star_rising]

1) grooble:"Back to number 2. Do you have a preferred continent?"<br /><br />1) ISA Reply: grooble, no not really! From a program and mission profile, an Equator Location with the Highest Mountain Site able to be accessed would be our main goal. Once a number of candidate sites/locations are identified, the filtering process would begin, but for now it is still open-ended! <br /><br />2) grooble:"Some of the African equatorial nations (Congo, Uganda) are in current conflicts and i'd question whether there is the local infrastructure available in those nations to pull off the construction effort. Although i might be wrong on that. But i wouldn't choose Africa myself."<br /><br />2) ISA Reply: grooble, conflicts could be appeased very fast when those in conflict hear a few trillion dollars is being considered to be invested in their area! ;-) Also your comment whether there is the local infrastructure available in those nations to pull off the construction effort. Most likely many multinational construction and technology companies would move massive resources and man power to the final construction area, so this again would not be a problem. If you look at projects like the Panama Canal, Large Dams, and Large Bridge projects, this was how it was always done, and on many cases entire new cities were built, just for the personnel of the large civil engineering projects, which created thriving new economies and communities. I am sure an International Space Port and Launching Facility would create an International City and High Technology Super Center in its near vicinity! ;-)<br /><br />3) grooble:"Then there is the south american nations, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador. I'd rule out Colombia immediately because of the awful security situation, and the drugs and FARC war. Out of the remaining 2 i'd choose Brazil. Brazil are desperate for economic development and investment. Brazil has well developed mining and manufacturing sectors, with a large number of laborers. This wou

 

[north_star_rising]

1) CalliArcale: "I agree; Brazil seems the best candidate. It's also one more likely to be amenable to the concept, what with their budding space program."<br /><br />1) ISA Reply: CalliArcale, Yes that is true, and is one of the main reasons Brazil is now number 1 on the list! However, that is our list, and not Brazils list? Brazil to date has received over 20 Diplomatic letters from the International Space Agency (ISA) Organization in this regards, and to date all have been ignored or not responded too? This is typical of Governments, as the U.S. Government does this all the time, as a matter of policy! ;-) Hmm! :-(<br /><br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/isp_letter_feb_2004.html<br /><br />I am sure however that as things develop, and Brazil fully realizes the benefits it stands to gain from this project, it will reply when it is ready, and at a proper time!<br /><br />On that note, Nigeria is the first Country to Officially Recognize the International Space Agency (ISA) and will be Officially Joining the ISA Organization in the very near future. Making Nigeria the first National Government to do so, and will be followed in short order by other Countries in the near future. This will give the International Space Agency both the respect and resources it needs to move forward on many of its historic and important programs, projects, and efforts.<br /><br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/wash_dc_letter_feb_2005<br /><br />2) CalliArcale: "Of course, there is one major problem with the rail concept, and that's that you do not have much choice for your orbital inclinations. The rail defines your inclination. That's not necessarily a killer for the entire concept. After all, Israel's Shavit launches are restricted by the political situation to a very narrow range

 

[jurgens]

The first thing you should do is hire a beter web designer...

 

[grooble]

That would come under 6 - E, outreach.<br /><br />I'd cut the music and go for a links on the left, or a drop down menu with a good page header. Maybe the ISA logo could be enhanced, and some text effects.<br /><br />Maybe you can put the latest space news on there to get repeat visitors and word of mouth exposure.

 

[jurgens]

I'm sorry to say this, but I think you guys are a bunch of quacks.

 

[north_star_rising]

JurgenS: "The first thing you should do is hire a better web designer..."<br /><br />ISA Reply: JurgenS, our web sites are the best we can do with the resources we have! We have made many requests for help over the years in these regards, but people do not want to work for free! Hmm~! Wonder Why! ;-)<br /><br />Anyway, 99% of our resources have gone into meetings and Diplomatic Operations in Washington, D.C. over the years. We just also officially opened our Diplomatic Offices in Washington, D.C. in late February of this year. This has taken massive effort and has stretched our limited resources to the limits. We also have our Primary Administrative Offices in Omaha, Nebraska.<br /><br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/wash_dc_letter_feb_2005<br /><br />Omaha, Nebraska - Administrative Offices<br />http://www.isa-hq.net<br /><br />Washington, D.C. - Diplomatic Offices<br />http://www.isa-hq.org<br /><br />We are always open to any help or resources in these regards!<br /><br />As we would like nothing more than to have a nicer more robust web site! ;-)<br /><br />But for now, this is what we have to work with, and is the best we can do with the personnel and resources we have at present!<br /><br />So, are you volunteering to help?<br /><br />It is easy to criticize, or find fault; but entirely another matter to actually do something! ;-) Hmm!<br />

 

[north_star_rising]

grooble: "That would come under 6 - E, outreach. I'd cut the music and go for a links on the left, or a drop down menu with a good page header. Maybe the ISA logo could be enhanced, and some text effects. Maybe you can put the latest space news on there to get repeat visitors and word of mouth exposure."<br /><br />ISA Reply: grooble, Thanks, these are all good ideas, and we have wanted to do all these things! However, as already stated these things take Money & Personnel! Both of which we have very limited resources at the present time! If a few web designers and computer geniuses would like to step up to the plate and volunteer their services, we would welcome this!<br /><br />We are also looking for Volunteers for our Omaha, Nebraska Administrative Offices and Washington, D.C. Diplomatic Offices, so any interested people should contact the International Space Agency in this regards.<br /><br />Also, we are always accepting resumes for positions on our Board of Directors and Board of Advisors; and for Organization Officers and Personnel Positions. So we encourage interested people to apply for these positions.<br /><br />Also, grooble, please remember Rome was not built in a day! And also that at present the International Space Agency (ISA) is the underdog as is struggling for its very survival, and so we need to place our resources in the political and diplomatic arenas and organization focus for now! This is now paying off in big ways, and 2005 will bring some very big developments for the ISA Organization, which will translate to more support, resources, and personnel in the near future! <br /><br />But for now, first things first! And the trim and luxuries will come in due time! <br /><br />The ISA has a number of Internet Resources, already in the thousands of dollars over the years, here are just a few:<br /><br />http://www.international-space-agency.org<br />

 

[grooble]

Nah it's just an image problem, but that cant be worked out.

 

[north_star_rising]

JurgenS: "I'm sorry to say this, but I think you guys are a bunch of quacks."<br /><br />ISA Reply: JurgenS!, quack, quack, quack, quack, quack, quack, quack, quack! ;-) Hmm!<br /><br />I am at a loss for words, as dealing with people like you, the Secret Agent and Nationalists types, is depressing and frustrating! Sooner or later your type has got to stick their nose into everything! Poo Pah anything or anyone who is a threat to your desires for World Domination and Control! Hmmm! :-(<br /><br />I was wondering when you folks would pull out the big guns, disinformation, propaganda, and group think manipulation!?! Hmm! If people only knew the half of it! Hmm! They would not even want to get out of bed in the mourning, as it would be too depressing! Hmm! :-(<br />

 

[north_star_rising]

grooble: "Nah it's just an image problem, but that cant be worked out."<br /><br />ISA Reply: grooble, the ISA is not about IMAGE, it is about ACTION and PROGRESS!<br /><br />Those that worry about IMAGE belong in HOLLYWOOD not in one of Humanities most Important & Historic Space Organizations & Efforts! Hmm! <br /><br />Besides, IMAGE is only about MONEY, POWER, GREED, and MANIPULATION! And has nothing what so ever to do with TRUE Intentions, Actions, or Progress!<br />

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"...the Secret Agent and Nationalists types, is depressing and frustrating! Sooner or later your type has got to stick their nose into everything! Poo Pah anything or anyone who is a threat to your desires for World Domination and Control! Hmmm! :-( "</font><br /><br />Whoa! <b>That's</b> showing him the ISA isn't staffed by a bunch of quacks. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[henryhallam]

<font color="yellow"><br />I'm sorry to say this, but I think you guys are a bunch of quacks.<br /></font><br /><br />In all honesty, I have to agree here I'm afraid. More or less all your ideas seem hopelessly unrealistic. If enthusiasm alone could build a rocket-ramp though, you're the people to do it <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[north_star_rising]

mrmorris: "...the Secret Agent and Nationalists types, is depressing and frustrating! Sooner or later your type has got to stick their nose into everything! Poo Pah anything or anyone who is a threat to your desires for World Domination and Control! Hmmm! :-( " Whoa! That's showing him the ISA isn't staffed by a bunch of quacks."<br /><br />ISA Reply: mrmorris, and so the dogs of war are unleashed and the psychological warfare begins! So, since this thread was about Public Input and not Government input!<br /><br />So, What Pray Thee, is your question? Hmm?<br />

 

[jurgens]

huh?<br /><br />north_star, I have a question, how old do you think I am and what do you think I do.

 

[grooble]

Ok, maybe not image. Presentation is a better term.<br /><br />You said yourself, you'd like a better website. Thats what i mean, presentation.

 

[north_star_rising]

henryhallam: "I'm sorry to say this, but I think you guys are a bunch of quacks. In all honesty, I have to agree here I'm afraid. More or less all your ideas seem hopelessly unrealistic. If enthusiasm alone could build a rocket-ramp though, you're the people to do it"<br /><br />ISA Reply: henryhallam, Hmm? I see!<br />So have you told NASA and the U.S. Government this?; that they are not the right people to do this? Hmm?<br /><br />Because that is what you are saying!<br /><br />I can see where this is going, and you and your friends have waited for just this opportunity for some time now! Hmm! Haven't you! <br /><br />Just could not figure out how to pull it off with out the Fart Sticking To You when it was over! Hmm!<br /><br />Deniability and Stealth are your earmarks, and we can't mess that up now can we! Hmm!<br />

 

[north_star_rising]

JurgenS: "huh? north_star, I have a question, how old do you think I am and what do you think I do."<br /><br />ISA Reply: Hmm! I really wonder!? NOT! Hmm! :-I

 

[north_star_rising]

grooble: "Ok, maybe not image. Presentation is a better term. You said yourself, you'd like a better website. That’s what i mean, presentation."<br /><br />ISA Reply: grooble, Yes Presentation would be a better word to use! And Yes, we would like nicer looking websites, but as I have already said a number of times, we are doing the best with what we have NOW!, and are very open too, and encourage those who have Website Developing skills to step forward and help!<br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov<br /><br />Now that is a few thousand dollars in resources, infrastructure, production, and personnel! Looks really really nice! But, who has a few thousand dollars but NASA to do something like this!<br /><br />We, ISA, surely do not have such resources at Present!<br /><br />Maybe someday! But not now!<br /><br />So, again, we do the best we can with what we have!<br /><br />