Mars water was very salty

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h2ouniverse

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Hi Jon<br /><br />in reply to<br />-------<br />segreations of purer ice <br />--------<br /><br />A good point you are making! IIRC 20°C can be found at about -2000m depth. This means that some layers betwen surface and that depth can see alternations of subzero and supra-zero temperatures in a potential wet crust. Should'nt it indeed segregate salt from water? I mean, at a larger scale than just a local pocket close to a gully...<br /><br />regards.
 
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exoscientist

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In the news releases Knoll doesn't say which types of organisms he is referring to that can survive in salty environments but is notable that certain types of fungi can also survive in high levels of salinity, and at below freezing temperatures. This is interesting because fungi have a nucleus, unlike simple bacteria, and are therefore considered to be a more advanced life form than bacteria. In fact they are sometimes regarded by biologists as being more closely related to animals than to plant-life.<br /> <br /> Life Sci Space Res. 1979;17:95-8.<br /> Growth of fungi in NaCl-MgSO4 brines.<br /> Siegel SM, Siegel BZ.<br /> Department of Botany and Pacific Biomedical Research Center, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii 96822, USA.<br /> "Long-term studies have shown that common fungi of the Penicillium-Aspergillus group can be grown in a variety of brines or on moist salt crystals, simulating a range of natural terrestrial habitats such as salt flats, or special water-bodies such as the Dead Sea. In general, salt media rich in KCl are favored over other alkali halides; the media become more selective as the salt concentration rises and nutrient requirements become more complex. We here demonstrate that media which resemble the Dead Sea salt mix can support the growth of selected fungal strains, even in the absence of reduced organic nutrients other than glucose. Such media may serve as models for localized microhabitats on Mars."<br /> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12296355<br /> <br /> Life Sci Space Res. 1976;14:351-4.<br /> Performance of fungi in low temperature and hypersaline environments.<br /> Siegel SM, Speitel TW.<br /> Department of Botany, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA.<br /> "During the past ten years we have observed a broad array of stress capabilities in common fungi including ability to grow in aqueous ammonia and other alkaline solutions, in acids, in the presence of heavy metals, and in various salt media at low temperature. This report is concerned primarily with (a) the performance of Aspergillaceae in a variety of saturated salts, (b) distinctive roles for K+ and Rb+ ions, and (c) the lowest temperatures at which growth in nutrient brines has been observed, namely 267 degrees K in as little as 14 days. We also describe a novel solid medium based upon gelatin, glycerol and water in which fungal cultures growing at 248 degrees K can be directly examined under oil-immersion magnification. The performance capabilities of the fungi show that tolerance or adaptability to harsh and extreme physical-chemical environments cannot be considered a unique feature of prokaryotic life forms. Salt flats, brine pools and other natural hypersaline environments have long been recognized as real ecological niches harboring a range of biota from pseudomonad bacteria and green algae to specialized crustaceans. A notable omission in this ecological record is the fungi, although the group is known to include marine forms."<br /> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12678120<br /> <br /> Bob Clark <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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exoscientist

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hello every body, some numbers for comparison, when the paper becomes available; Extreme halophiles can grow in solutions at up 32% Na Cl. Extreme acidophiles can grow at PH as low as 0, and have been found close to areas with Ph as low as -3.5 <br /> Posted by marsbug</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;Just saw this link on the Markcarey.com/mars forum:<br /> <br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloarchaea<br /> <br /> Interestingly it says they can survive in salt concentrations up to saturation. This means physically as much salt that can possibly be dissolved in water. So the Meridiani concentrations couldn't be any higher than this, yet life was still able to survive under such conditions.<br /> <br /> <br /> Bob Clark </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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thejinxkitten

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>SDC Article Scientists are taking a closer look at data provided by the rovers. I wonder if conditions were/are significantly different at the poles. We'll soon find out - Phoenix lands in 100 days! (Edit: oops - typo) <br /> Posted by brellis</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'm so excited about it. Spirit and Opportunity is doing so well on Mars. Maybe Phoenix will find liquid water, salty or not.</p><p>cheers to humankind&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><div style="text-align:center"><img id="f4c1b2ef-0793-4f27-9615-e4e17a5bc441" src="http://sitelife.livescience.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/4/6/f4c1b2ef-0793-4f27-9615-e4e17a5bc441.Large.gif" alt="blog post photo" /></div><br /> <p> </p><p> -------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p><font color="#800080">"there are other worlds than this" Jake Chamber of Dark Tower</font></p> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Just saw this link on the Markcarey.com/mars forum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloarchaea Interestingly it says they can survive in salt concentrations up to saturation. This means physically as much salt that can possibly be dissolved in water. So the Meridiani concentrations couldn't be any higher than this, yet life was still able to survive under such conditions. Bob Clark <br />Posted by exoscientist</DIV></p><p>Halobacteria are the reason why many salt lakes are pink.&nbsp; Here is an example.</p><p><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/5/20a10d26-6d97-48bd-a532-25d4be726d3b.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p>Jon</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>hi Jon, Some more water to your mill:http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080320-mars-salt-deposits.htmland from JPL:http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-047 <br />Posted by h2ouniverse</DIV></p><p>Yes, this is really interesting.&nbsp; Expected by those of us who think that Mars once had lakes and oceans, but exciting all the same.&nbsp; I will have to wait until after Easter to read the <em>Science</em> paper.</p><p>I am keen to see how they got round the problem of transparency of NaCl in visible and IR wavelengths, as this is relevant for my work also.</p><p>cheers</p><p>Jon<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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