MORE AND MORE SPACE DEBRIS COLLISIONS OCCURING.

[cyclonebuster]

<p>Perhaps,it hit some of that space debris from the collision last week.<br /><br /><br />NASA Climate Change Satellite Has Troubled Launch<br /><br /><br />VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, California &mdash; A NASA satellite launched on a mission to track carbon dioxide emissions worldwide had technical problems shortly after its pre-dawn takeoff Tuesday that put in jeopardy its mission to better understand greenhouse gas and climate change.<br /><br />The Taurus XL rocket carrying the Orbiting Carbon Observatory blasted off at 1:55 a.m. PST from Vandenberg Air Force Base on California's Central Coast, but launch managers shifted to a contingency plan minutes later because the payload fairing failed to separate properly from the spacecraft after it left the atmosphere, NASA commentator George Diller said.<br /><br />"We have not had a successful launch tonight and will not be able to have a successful OCO mission," Diller said.<br /><br />The fairing shelters the payload as the launch vehicle flies through the atmosphere.<br /><br />The carbon observatory is NASA's first satellite dedicated to monitoring carbon dioxide on a global scale. Measurements collected from the $280 million mission were expected to improve climate models and help researchers determine where the greenhouse gas is coming from and how much is being absorbed by forests and oceans.</p><p>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,499104,00.html</p>

 

[silylene old]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Not that I don't agree with your premise that Iridium is superfolous there are a lot of weather, environmental and scientific satellites that the issue is still relevent. Since both had been in orbit for a long time it seems the orbits could be better defined to predict a collision as certain rather then a low enough probability to ignore it. The bigger problem is the collision spreads the debris to various orbits, higher, lower and in different inclinations. Now just getting to Hubble may be a problem, the ISS, because of it's inclination might be better off, but even though the time frame gets pretty wide, what goes up has to come down, unless it reaches escape velocity. <br />Posted by scottb50</DIV></p><p>Iridium is superfluous.&nbsp; The 60+ Iridiums should be de-orbited with their remaining fuel before they encounter the debris trails, and breakup to form more debris...and encounter the debris trails...and breakup to cause more debris...etc, etc....leading to an end of orbital satellites.</p><p>All the iridium share the same orbital height, and all have intersecting polar orbits.&nbsp; Iridiums intersecting with the existitng debris trails are a menace to all space exploration.&nbsp; They should be de-orbited.</p><p>The other space satellites are useful, such as weather and communication sats.&nbsp; I am not suggesting to de-orbit them, just the Iridiums.</p><p>Iridium has less than 10,000 customers for its far overpriced network which required very heavy handsets, which became superfluous when ground based cellphone networks became ubiquitous after about 1999.</p><p>About the yr 2000 Iridium bankruptcy:</p><table border="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td class="pagehead" colspan="2" align="left" valign="top"><strong><font size="4">Iridium bankruptcy - an end to the flares!</font></strong>

 

[nimbus]

Wow... They really <em>should</em> be deorbited. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rubicondsrv]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Wow... They really should be deorbited. <br />Posted by nimbus</DIV><br /><br />iridium is now hevaly used by us military and mariners and a new generation of satelites is being planned.</p><p>deorbiting iridum would be a bad idea.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Perhaps,it hit some of that space debris from the collision last week.Posted by cyclonebuster</DIV></p><p>Perhaps not. It was a malfunction of the spacecraft. See the OCS+OCO thread.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Iridium is superfluous.&nbsp; Posted by silylene</DIV><br /><br />Note those articles are from 2000. Since then Iridium has been functioning, and in fact are planning to launch a new constellation of satellites. There is a thread on the subject in Space Business and Technology if you want to catch up on the recent info. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>iridium is now hevaly used by us military and mariners and a new generation of satelites is being planned.deorbiting iridum would be a bad idea.&nbsp; <br />Posted by rubicondsrv</DIV><br /><br />Thanx, I meant to mention that the US military is one of the heaviest users now. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[nimbus]

Thanks.. I should have looked that up myself. I don't see how the co-orbital debris is less of a problem than as Silylene points out, though. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[silylene old]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Note those articles are from 2000. Since then Iridium has been functioning, and in fact are planning to launch a new constellation of satellites. There is a thread on the subject in Space Business and Technology if you want to catch up on the recent info. <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />Thanks MW, I looked up that thread again.</p><p>Regardless, as things go, I still don't see that big of a 'need' for Iridiums, even with US military useage (I&nbsp;am quite aware&nbsp;that we have been using these to coordinate Special Forces in Afghanistan).</p><p>I am balancing the needs for Iridiums, versus the danger of future collisions, and also including into this risk the knowledge that Iridiums are not shifted when 'conjunction reports' are issued&nbsp; (not that this may help very much anyways).</p><p>Since all of the Iridiums are orbiting at the same height, in intersecting polar orbits, their risk of future collisions with the debris trails of the last two smahed satellites is very high, since their orbital height coincides with the center of mass of the debris trails; and even as&nbsp;the debris trials&nbsp;scatter,&nbsp;the trail&nbsp;will remained centered near this height for the next decade or so.&nbsp;&nbsp;If there is another Iridium collision, there will be another debris trail to intersect, which leads to another collision, etc, etc until we have created a broad swath of orbital space peppered with the 100's&nbsp;K pieces of debris of 60+ Iridiums (and other sats at that orbital height).</p><p>It will take 5-20 years for the iridium chain reaction destruction to play out.&nbsp; It may be 1-5 years before the next iridium strike.&nbsp; The thirds strike will come quicker.&nbsp; Then the 4th.&nbsp; Then a strike every month or so, then every week or so...until some bright bulb gets the idea to de-orbit the remainders.&nbsp; Of course by then the Iridium debris trails will be intersecting the approximately 100 other sats at similar orbital heights.&nbsp; We'll probably have to de-orbit all of them, and these are very valuable sats for weather, communications, national defense, earth surveying (see my other thread for the list of working sats at this orbital height)</p><p>This barrage of debris will become a disaster for future space exploration.</p><p><strong>Sadly, it&nbsp;is time to de-orbit Iridium.</strong>&nbsp; We should have done this in 1999, when Motorola first threatened to do so.&nbsp; if we do so, hopefully we should be able to save the other much more valuable sats which share&nbsp;similar orbital height.s</p><p>(It will be fun to go back to this thread in 5-10 years from now, and see if I was right.)</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[silylene old]

Should I start a new thread on de-orbiting the iridiums ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks MW, I looked up that thread again....{snip}....(It will be fun to go back to this thread in 5-10 years from now, and see if I was right.) <br />Posted by silylene</DIV><br /><br />Your points are well taken my friend, and I fear you are right. But realistically, with the US military being a prime user, I see no realistic political will to make it happen.</p><p>As far as 5 or 10 years from now, if you're betting, I'm putting my money on your scenario.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Should I start a new thread on de-orbiting the iridiums ? <br />Posted by silylene</DIV><br /><br />That sounds like a good idea; while it is related to this thread, it might be good to have a thread to focus on the Iridium Constellation. This one really reflects the Iridium/Kosmos collision, and in fact in the short term the Kosmos debris is the greater threat in all orbits since it is more widely dispersed.</p><p>One good thing to investigate would be to find the orbits of other such satellite constellations, such as GPS sats (by various nations) which of course are all in similar orbits within each system.</p><p>MW</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[cyclonebuster]

<p>I still think a solar powered&nbsp;particle beam similar to the&nbsp;Boeing Airborne Laser would work quite nice.LOL!<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /></p>

 

[job1207]

<p>http://celestrak.com/cgi-bin/searchSOCRATES.pl</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>When you look at the tracking&nbsp; possible collisions, the&nbsp; Chinese satellite fiasco of last year comes up most often. Cosmos, is second. Of course, I do not know if the NEW debris is included in this analysis.&nbsp;</p><p><br />What a mess.&nbsp; </p>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://celestrak.com/cgi-bin/searchSOCRATES.plWhen you look at the tracking&nbsp; possible collisions, the&nbsp; Chinese satellite fiasco of last year comes up most often. Cosmos, is second. Of course, I do not know if the NEW debris is included in this analysis.&nbsp;What a mess.&nbsp; <br />Posted by job1207</DIV><br /><br />I would think they would be since USSPACECOMM has established individual orbits for at leat 130 pieces of debris from the Kosmos/Iridium Collision. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[cyclonebuster]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I would think they would be since USSPACECOMM has established individual orbits for at leat 130 pieces of debris from the Kosmos/Iridium Collision. <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>130/1,000,000,000,???????????? <br /></p>

 

[cyclonebuster]

NASA: Shuttle's Risk of Debris Strike Up 6 Percent told you so


http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/09 ... -risk.html

 

[MeteorWayne]

Yeah, we already knew that.

 

[job1207]

http://www.space.com/news/090310-satellite-debris.html

Cosmos and Iridium to reenter. To wit, I say, well, what is the radiation hazard from Cosmos? They are nuclear satellites.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Here's the Spaceweather.com article:
http://www.spaceweather.com/

And a map of the Kosmos 2251 orbital debris. (I hope)

 

[job1207]

I looked it up, Cosmos are not all nuclear satellites, and this one is not.

 

[silylene]

Wow, this debris is really starting to cover a wide expanse, and I recall posting a list of 150+ operational and useful satellites in similar orbits.

(I wish all of silylene's posts hadn't been deleted during the de-Pluckification, I had info on this subject I wanted to refer back to!)

 

[maxqueue]

You guys are slow on this forum. There is something happening on the ISS right now wrt this topic

 

[MeteorWayne]

You guys are slow on this forum. There is something happening on the ISS right now wrt this topic

Care to enlighten us?

 

[MeteorWayne]

Never mind jim, I forget that you only sneak in here to show off your superior knowledge, with disdain and arrogence.

Here's the news I've been able to find so far from NASA:

Expedition 18 is taking precautionary measures due to space debris that has been determined to be within the range at a time when they cannot perform an avoidance maneuver.

And I should point out, that the debris in question has nothing to do with the Iridium/Kosmos collision.

See the specific expedition 18 thread I started for the latest details. I share what I learn....