Mystery meteorite illness

JonClarke · Sep 25, 2007

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/09/070921-meteor-peru.html Regardless of Wayne's scepticism of National Geographic, the article does cite a number of scientists who have examined the crater and samples from it. Some of the scientists have been quoted in other sources as well, saying much the same thing, others have being quoted here for the first time. I suspect the scepticism and surprising lack of interesting toeards this event, the largest known terrestrial impact for 60 years is because it was in Peru. If it were in Idaho the media would have swarmed all over it and there would be huge scientific attention. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

silylene old · Sep 25, 2007

If it were in Idaho the media would have swarmed all over it and there would be huge scientific attention Hmmm.... I don't know John. A large majority of American probably think Idaho is a foreign country, somewhere between Iran and Iraq. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function. </div> </div>

adrenalynn · Sep 26, 2007

It's those Iowanians you gotta watch out for... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> .bipartisan (bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən) [Adj.] Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.IMPEACH OBAMA! </div>

JonClarke · Sep 26, 2007

<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Sep 26, 2007

For comparison, here are some photos of the Sikhote-Alin craters http://www.spacerocksinc.com/SIKHOTE-ALINFALL_PAGE3.html Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MeteorWayne · Sep 26, 2007

The whole thing just requires some funky physics. If it came in at cosmic velocities, chondrites should't survive the explosion, it should all be vaporised. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Sep 26, 2007

And despite my skepticism, I have stated I'm not the one on the scene, so my opinions are "expert from a distance" ones. Therefore just opinions. I will be interested to see some peer reviewed reports on this event. I'll keep an eye out on the astronomy end, Jon you watch the geology journals <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> My skepticism is based on personal experience, and I would point out that National Geographic is not a peer reviewed journal, so as of now these are all just "news reports" . It is not based on any anti-Peruvian bias <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Smersh · Sep 26, 2007

... so my opinions are "expert from a distance" ones ... At least you're an expert. I'm just an "ignoramus from a distance." <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea." Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."Website / forums </div>

MeteorWayne · Sep 26, 2007

And in fact, the expert should have been in quotes as well, since I'm not an accredited expert <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

adrenalynn · Sep 26, 2007

I'll accredit you if you accredit me. It's all just arbitrary anyway, right?

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> .bipartisan (bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən) [Adj.] Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.IMPEACH OBAMA! </div>

JonClarke · Sep 26, 2007

If it came in at cosmic velocities, chondrites should't survive the explosion, it should all be vaporised. Indeed. Every crater under about 1 km is associated with an iron or stony iron meteorite. I raised this with a colleague who probably knows more about the subject than the two of us put together. He said that there are some low angle, overtaking, grazing trajectories that might allow a chondrite this small to reach the surface. So it is improbable but not impossible. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

robnissen · Sep 26, 2007

I don't know how this will turn out, but National Geographic still does not have it right: The resulting crater resembles a muddy pond measuring 42 feet (13 meters) wide and 10 feet (3 meters) deep If that crater is 10 feet deep, then the people standing on the rim are about 2 feet tall!!

Smersh · Sep 26, 2007

Yes, I've noticed quite a few differences in the given dimensions of the crater, depending which media source one reads. National Geographic seem to be well out there though, I agree! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea." Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."Website / forums </div>

JonClarke · Sep 30, 2007

Preliminary technical report available http://www.ingemmet.gob.pe/paginas/pl01_quienes_somos.aspx?opcion=320 The National geographic quoted diameter of 13 m appears to be the correct one. The depth probably includes the portion below water level. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MeteorWayne · Sep 30, 2007

Thanx, Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

astroguard · Oct 5, 2007

On the NEO_News listgroup (10/04/07), David Morrison (NASA) wrote: # Many of us were initially skeptical of the reality of a meteorite fall. # However, the measurement of an atmospheric pressure wave* # and preliminary analysis of samples taken from the crater rim** # point to a real impact, apparently from a stony meteorite. # It appears that the meteorite did not strike at cosmic hypervelocity # ( />10 km/s), and therefore the energy of the impact was relatively # small (<100 tons of TNT). I know of no one who understands how # a stony object of no more than a few meters dimensions could be # decelerated in the atmosphere and yet strike the surface intact. * atmospheric pressure-wave measurements from Peter Brown and Mark Boslough (Oct 4, 2007): # we can only find one definite infrasound station showing a record # for the Peru impact event. From this record, however, we can isolate # the time of occurrence for the fireball as most likely 1634 +/- 4 min UT # on 15 Sep 2007. The one and only infrasound signal is from a station # in La Paz -- very close to the impact site (about 70 km away). # From the airwave we can apply some simple relations we have # worked out from other fireball events; when we do this we get # a source energy less than 0.1 kton TNT -- very small indeed! ** excerpt from the INGEMMET (Geological, Mining, and Metallurgical Institute) initial report (21 Sep 2007): # An INGEMMET scientist arrived 36 hours after the impact. # Most major fragments had been taken by the villagers, # but she picked up several small pieces of fine-grained light-grey, # fragile rocky material with disseminated iron of 1 mm diameter. # Thin and polished sections were prepared for petro-mineraligic # determinations under optical microscope. They revealed chondritic # texture and a mineral composition including pyroxine,

JonClarke · Oct 9, 2007

More on the shock wave associated with this event: http://spaceweather.com . "Without reservation this is definitely a meteorite". Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 10, 2007

The general feeling is at was caused by sulpherous fumes released by the impact, and all the rest was the human mind <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

JonClarke · Oct 10, 2007

What about infrasound? Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 11, 2007

I suppose it's possible, but the link you provided the other day (Thanx, BTW) only showed two short bursts, which probably were very much like thunder as is typical of incomings. Of course, if this object was not in free fall, it could have been different, since such objects are extremely rare. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Smersh · Oct 14, 2007

There is a very interesting website here by Michael Farmer, (a private meteor collector,) who visited the site in Peru and collected quite a few specimens, as well as buying more samples from local people. The website has a lot of photos of the crater and the specimens he collected. I hope this now shows that this was indeed caused by a chondrite meteor and that the Peruvian scientists were correct in their assessment. As a side note, Mr Farmer apparently also got into trouble with local police over the price he paid for the specimens. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea." Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."Website / forums </div>

3488 · Oct 14, 2007

Hi Smersh, Cheers, very interesting. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Oct 14, 2007

The adventures of Farmer (who seems a very dodgy character) are being discusedd in this thread: http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=sciastro&Number=806165&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart= <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Oct 14, 2007

Sorry Jon, I did not realise that he was a dodgy character. If so, I will not endorse his antics. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Oct 14, 2007

That's OK Andrew. The whole business of the smuggling and sale of meteorites, like that of archaeological relics and fossils, is immensely contraversial. At least the link gives us a nice photo of the crater and a bit more info! Cheers Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

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