Near Earth Asteroid Relocation

[Boris_Badenov]

OK, I down loaded Orbiter, & will take it home to load on my PC. (don't have the internet at home, I live on a 800 acre sheep ranch in east central AZ.) If I can get it figured out, I will post the results.<br /><br /> Also, if we used a mass driver, we would lose containment on the asteroid, thereby losing a large percentage of the volatiles, if not all of them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[owenander]

I think relocating an asteroid would be a little absolete.

 

[j05h]

> I think relocating an asteroid would be a little absolete.<br /><br />Depending on the scale you are talking about, an asteroid could just as easily be "product" by the time it arrives in Earth orbit. If part of the asteroid is used as fuel and the rest processed en-route, it becomes a larger operation that has much faster turn-around time on delivery. <br /><br />My favorite solution for moving NEOs is to paint them. Change the albedo and the object itself acts as a solar sail. Not as accurate as a giant aluminum sail, but enough to deflect an Earth-impactor given decades. <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

<font color="yellow">I'd imagine that the Atens would be easier to send to Earth if you intended to land it in that stadium at several kilometers per second</font><br /><br />Find one with platinum and carbon and crash the biatch into the moon. It's just sitting there useless anyway, and as a neato bonus we get both economic support from the NASCAR crowd plus all all the science data gathered during the mofo once in 10,000,000 year impact event. Pretty looking ejecta and such. <br /><br />Now, maneuvering it. Convince Bill Gates (easy), Larry Page (more evil than he claims), Sergey Brin (sneaky f'ing russian), The Disney Corporation (easy), Warren Buffett (perhaps off him and brainwash his kid), Steve Ballmer (easy), Ingvar Kamprad (nah, tightwad. forget it), Paul Allen (easy), Mittal (easy), Prince Alwaleed (easy), The Waltons (hard), Bernard Arnault (wait, he's french. screw him.), Rupert Murdoch (easy), Putin (president for life), The Republican Party (lol, are you kidding), and the inner circle of the Chinese government of your plan for solar domination. They'll provide cash to get you going. (Consider calling yourself something catchy, say 'Blue Sun'.) Publicly announce only the microsoft trio as your private backers. Use google video and a google/microsoft built fiber network to crush television and the baby bells. Now you control ALL the media. Begin manipulating world markets in your favor. <br /><br />Build solar powered electromagnetic tethers in earth orbit to send your electromagnetic catapult, nuclear reactor, hydrogen tanks plus nuclear thermal rocket for breaking, and platinum mining kit to the asteroid. Boost all of it on protons or whatever is cheapest. This tether is reusable thousands of times, and you can make cash on the side moving satellites from LEO to GEO and back for repair. Wait...<br /><br />A year or so later using your machinery which just started to arrive, begin mining platinum. Fire it using the mass driver towards earth in prema

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Why, there's an intelligent post!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Why? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Depending on the scale you are talking about, an asteroid could just as easily be "product" by the time it arrives in Earth orbit. If part of the asteroid is used as fuel and the rest processed en-route, it becomes a larger operation that has much faster turn-around time on delivery. <br /><br /><br /> <br /> Large factory ships could be used to hunt for smaller (10 to 30 meters in diameter) asteroids with high metal content, & convert them into usable products for sale to orbital communities. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

<font color="yellow">Why, there's an intelligent post!!!</font><br /><br />My theory is that if you're constructing an organisation to move a 500000 tonne rock, you want a military industrial complex of not less than three superpowers, plus total media control to protect your investment.<br /><br />And by golly, you dont want to be at the bottom of a grav well when someone figures out how you got all three to back you.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

My theory is that if you're constructing an organization to move a 500000 ton rock, you want a military industrial complex of not less than three superpowers, plus total media control to protect your investment.<br /><br /> Name one mining interest on the planet that controls 1 superpower, and then name the other 2 superpowers.<br /><br />p.s. It’s 3,000,000 tons.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[scottb50]

I think it would be much easier to get there, mine what you can and come back. If it's lucrative enough you could fly a lot of small mining missions for less than one massive repositioning mission.<br /><br />Since the major part of an asteroid is pretty much unusable why bother to bring it back? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ve7rkt]

> (Consider calling yourself something catchy, say 'Blue Sun'.)<br /><br />A group of astronomers will complain about how your plan will create orbital light pollution the likes of which has never been seen before. Protest placards will read, "You can't take the night sky from me". <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[ve7rkt]

> Large factory ships could be used to hunt for smaller (10 to 30 meters in diameter) asteroids with high metal content, & convert them into usable products for sale to orbital communities.<br /><br />In your view, why does it make sense to harvest & refine on-site for rocks ranging from 628 tons (10m at the density of asteroid 45 Eugenia, pretty much lightest possible, not much denser than pure water) up to ~60,000 tons (30m at the density of 4 Vesta, pretty much heaviest possible), but not 3,000,000 tons? <br /><br /> /> Name one mining interest on the planet that controls 1 superpower, and then name the other 2 superpowers. <br /><br />Woah, political philosophy time. Okay. For the mining interest, I say hydrocarbons (oil, gas, etc). The United States of America is held by some to be the last remaining superpower, or maybe a hyperpower; if you don't accept that hydrocarbon interests control the USA outright, you cannot deny that they have enormous influence. The European Union can also be called a superpower, the news in the winter was all about the price of natural gas there. The People's Republic of China and the Republic of India are "emerging superpowers," both of which have huge populations with equally huge needs for energy, most of which is being supplied by hydrocarbons, so their economies continue to exist at the whim of hydrocarbon interests. China is the second largest consumer of oil in the world, and the US gov't estimates China's needs will double by 2025.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Woah, political philosophy time. Okay. For the mining interest, I say hydrocarbons (oil, gas, etc). The United States of America is held by some to be the last remaining superpower, or maybe a hyper power; if you don't accept that hydrocarbon interests control the USA outright, you cannot deny that they have enormous influence. The European Union can also be called a superpower; the news in the winter was all about the price of natural gas there. The People's Republic of China and the Republic of India are "emerging superpowers," both of which have huge populations with equally huge needs for energy, most of which is being supplied by hydrocarbons, so their economies continue to exist at the whim of hydrocarbon interests. China is the second largest consumer of oil in the world, and the US gov't estimates China's needs will double by 2025.<br /><br />(Boris blows raspberries at ve7rkt) pdpdpdpdpdpdpd<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[scottb50]

The problem is the United Sates, the Europeans, as well as China and India are all chasing the same barrel of oil. China uses 6% the U.S. 30%. China uses 10% more oil and the U.S. uses 3% more to afford the imports from China.<br /><br />China's needs will double because of U.S. demand for their products triples.What I don't understand is why John in the U.S. makes more than Ivan in Russia or a worker anywhere for doing the same job. Are they less human than I am? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ve7rkt]

> (Boris blows raspberries at ve7rkt) pdpdpdpdpdpdpd <br /><br />Well crap, I know when I'm beat. Your superior debating techniques have indeed cut me down, and I conceed that I was obviously wrong.<br /><br />My friend's infant daughter is right on the edge of learning that sounds can carry meaning; maybe discussions with her are more my speed.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Can anybody get good info on size & mass of Asteroid Apophis? I can't seem to find understandable desciptions, other than the close approach in 2029. It will get to within 25,000 miles of Earth surface. This seems like a good candidate for repositioning. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[torino10]

Another important consideration is spin, what if any is the rotational period of the asteroid you want to move? How many degrees does it's rotational axis differ from that of the solarsystem? You may be able to mine some of the mass of the asteroid and convert some of the asteroids rotational energy into a change in Deltav ,Rotational space tether. <br /><br />Also when you get to earth orbit you will have a working orbital trebuchet to drop rocks on the heads of whoever you want, include sending in a nice cloud of space debris in a lower orbit and nobody will be able to stop your new death star.

 

[webtaz99]

How close an asteroid gets to Earth has almost no bearing on how easy it is to capture. What matters is the change in velocity needed to establish a suitable Earth (or better yet Lunar) orbit.<br /><br />That said, ones that come close offer a chance to slightly modify their orbits, making their capture a long-term possibility. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

"How close an asteroid gets to Earth has almost no bearing on how easy it is to capture. What matters is the change in velocity needed to establish a suitable Earth (or better yet Lunar) orbit."<br /><br /> Can you calculate the change in delta-v? I can’t. www.permanent.com suggests a close lunar flyby to help slow the velocity. The B612 Foundation is already recommending we put a transponder on it to better track its orbital path in view of changing it, & I’m still looking for accurate dimensions & mass.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Here is another candidate for capture. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Here is how close it gets. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

This Apophis on April 13 2029 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

I found a little info. It is between 20 & 40 meters in diameter, & rotates once every 50 minutes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

Unfortunately, our current optical and radio telescopes are not suited to tracking asteroids in general and NEO's in particular. With the growing awareness of the threat they represent, hopefully we will soon have some operational sky watch hardware that can do the job. <br /><br />BTW, the Lunar far side presents an excellent place to locate such. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

The hardest part of the logistics of planning a landing on an NEA is the timing, not the delta V. There's always going to be a trade-off between available targets and dV. Fortunately, there are lots of targets.<br /><br />The closer the target's orbit is to Earth's the lower the dV needed, but also the longer it takes for the Earth and the target to "line up" for the low dV flight trajectory.<br /><br />Someday I hope to work out the exact parameters for a trip to one or more NEAs, including re-targeting strategies for launch date slips.<br /><br />It appears that the craft needs to spend quite a bit more dV than the theoretical minimum in order to create mission flexibility by going into a heliocentric phasing orbit. This phasing orbit would have a different orbital period than either Earth or the target. You can only change the orbital period by changing the orbital energy, so you're going to have to spend some dV to get where you want to go on a convenient schedule.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>