Non-Mass-Related Gravity Wells

[maeklos]

Hey, I just had a brilliant idea.<br /><br />Okay, so, we know that dark matter accounts for something like 90% of all matter in the Universe. But we don't know what it is, because we can't observe it directly, only the effect that its gravity has on visible matter.<br /><br />So, what if dark matter doesn't really exist? What if space-time is just all crooked and kinked, creating naturally-occuring gravity wells not linked to matter? This would simulate the effect of mass-induced gravity without actually needing mass. Thus, "dark matter" doesn't exist..it's simply an artifact of the naturally-occuring gravity wells. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[weeman]

Hmmm....<br /><br />What are your theories as to why space-time is warped and kinked? If there is no mass present, why is it being warped to an irregular shape? <br /><br />Think of the rubber sheet analogy. If you have an incredibly sensitive rubber sheet, then a person may even cause an indentation with their mass. Of course, a person causes such an incredibly small warp in space-time, that it goes completely unnoticed. Technically, anything with mass has gravitational pull, we just can't perceive it until we observe it on colossal scales (planets, stars, black holes, etc.). <br /><br />So, how would space become warped if there is no mass present? <br /><br />I'm not saying that your idea isn't perfectly valid, I'm just looking for more bits and pieces to support your theory <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[heyscottie]

I would say if that were the case, we would not observe dark matter clumping as we think we do. If space has some property that gives it bumpiness, I would expect it to be evenly spread across space. Unless, of course, these bumps migrate toward one another as their gravity pulls them together. They would then be acting exactly as though there IS matter present that causes gravity but we can't see.<br /><br />And isn't that the definition of dark matter in the first place?

 

[siarad]

Hm just a thought, space was created evenly & mass should likewise be even but just as mass has clumped so too could space, the background radiation too is uneven.

 

[h2ouniverse]

In Relativity theory, imho there is no difference between a spacetime "bump" and matter: they are considered equivalent.

 

[pyoko]

Yeah as someone above pointed out, dark matter seems to occur mainly around actual matter. If it was crinkled like you say, then that would be a near impossible coinsidence.<br />On the other hand, 'dark galaxies' IMO tend to point out the opposite. A clump of virtually no matter and 99.999% dark matter in one place. <br />I don't think we know enough about dark matter/ matter mapping to speculate clearly, though. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>

 

[maeklos]

My thought was to take dark matter out of the equation. We can observe dark matter only indirectly - that is, by how its gravity affects matter we can observe. All I thought to do was to take this out. Instead of a mystical type of matter that we've never seen, why can't space-time just be all crinkled on its own?<br /><br />Think of it like the crust of an extremely large pie. As it heats up, the crust expands. And as it cools, the crust collapses back, forming all kinds of cracks, dips, and depressions. The Universe went through this during the Big Bang - a very short period of extreme heat and energy. <br /><br />So now, as the Universe cooled, space-time itself formed minor divots, flaws, and imperfections that we can't notice directly. But this would explain the irregular clumping of matter in the universe - basically, what matter came into being slowly started to "roll into" these naturally-formed depressions, their own gravity adding to the slight curvature that was there, increasing it enough to get the ball rolling towards the formation of stars, systems, galaxies, etc. Like dropping fistfuls of blueberries on top of that pie. The blueberries will roll into the depressions, maybe cause them to sink a bit more, causing more blueberries to fall into it, and so on.<br /><br />I guess the point of this theory is that so-called dark matter doesn't have to be matter at all, and could instead be a currenly unknown property of the universe that we can't, currently, observe.<br /><br />KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid! Why invent some new type of matter when it's equally plausible that the effect we CAN observe (gravity) can be explained by an unknown property of something we know already exists (the universe)? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[yevaud]

*Sigh*<br /><br />All this maneuvering to describe something already hypothesized previously. This is not a new idea at all.<br /><br /><i>Cosmic Strings</i>. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[maeklos]

It's probably not a new idea, but seems like every other thing you read these days has some mention of dark matter in it. To me, it seems like "dark matter" is the 21st century equivalent of aether, the hypothetical substance that earlier astronomers and physicists believed filled space. After all, they believed, light had to travel through a medium, so the medium it traveled through must be something that they didn't know - hence, aether. More than a little bit of parallelism there, don't you think? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>