Oh, That Crazy Solar System!

[yevaud]

Trust me, it's not an "I gotchya" moment. More along the lines of "where, exactly, is all of this going?" <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

Yev, i'm just as curious about outer space as you. i want to know things. since my membership here, my knowledge of cosmology, with help from you and others, has exponentially exploded in my mind. and that is where i want to go. <br /><br />so let's go there <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[siriusmre]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>"Take for example the 'Electric Universe' idea. The question was asked as to why scientists think that even though there’s electricity present in space, it has little to do with most processes of star formation, planetary accretion, and other solar and galactic processes. Well, the answer is simple: it does not have the physical properties with which to be able to do so. It propagates differently than gravity; it fails to remotely approach required energy-levels for countless aspects of the Cosmos; it is not present 'everywhere' in space the way people seem to think."<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Well, Yevaud, your "simple" answer is simply wrong. It is true that electric forces propogate differently than gravity--electric forces decrease with the square of distance, as opposed to gravity which decreases with the inverse square of distance. So, your assertion that electric forces "[fail] to remotely approach the required energy levels" to produce cosmic phenomena is just flatly wrong. Clearly, you know very little about EU tenets in general, and electricity in particular. Electricity is at least <b>39 times sronger</b> than gravitational forces; gravity is negligible in the presence of electricity. Electric forces are not only strong enough to produce cosmic phenomena, but those structures can be strikingly modeled in a plasma laboratory because electrical phenomena can be scaled through at least <b>14 orders of magnitude</b>, from the microscopic industrial EDM process to the galactic scale of galaxies and stars. Further, how can you say difinitvely that electricity is not ubiquitous in space? Have we sent probes to test for electric fields? To every corner of the galaxy? I don't think so. So, at the very least, we can say that it is not clear whether there is an abundance of electricity in space. I'll give you that; but, I will not accept that it is a *fact* that electricity is a minor player in the cosmos.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Electric Universe has been debated, parsed, argued, scrutinized ad-infinitum, and yet almost daily someone comes out and begins the argument anew. It may well be new to <i>you</i> - not the rest of us.<br /><br />For example, let's take the "Electric Sun" idea. The quotes are from Dan Scott's "Electric Sun" website. The responses from Tony Thompson, a Degreed Astrophysicist at JPL:<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Electric Sun proponents state that a thermonuclear reaction of the type assumed to be powering the Sun must emit a flood of neutrinos. These neutrinos have not been found after thirty years of searching for them. A series of grandly expensive experiments have failed to find the necessary neutrino flux.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /><font color="orange">(1) Despite Scott's red-font claim to the contrary, after 30 years of looking for them, scientists have found that they can observe the fully expected flux of neutrinos from proton-proton (p-p) fusion. That is, the flux of neutrinos observed at the expected energy, for neutrinos from that fusion reaction, is as predicted by standard models.<br /><br />(2) A "normally intelligent scientist", upon obtaining a result that appears inconsistent with theory would, first and foremost, make sure that the apparently unexpected results were complete, and correct. Next, he would make sure that the alleged theoretical expectations were the real theoretical expectations, and that there was no mistake there either. Only then would the scientist consider calling into question the validity of fundamental assumptions in the theory, such as fusion in the solar/stellar interior. Scott, on the other hand, would skip the bother of verifying his results, and jump to the instantaneous conclusion that all of known physics must be wrong and must be replaced. That would be both illogical and unreasonable.<br /><br />(3) Mainstream science does not "turn a blind eye" to the possibility of other energy gener</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[Rugduster]

I agree with you SiriusMrE, in a universe that is full of surprising scientist day by day one can not and must not rule out the extraordinary. If my galaxy with perpendicular planets can be proved, and has by the way, then think of what could happen if say you have one gigantic planet of iron and orbiting that you have something that produces electricity then it can pull in the necessary objects. Who knows?

 

[bonzelite]

you're using "planets" in this case to mean orbiting objects or clusters of things in a cirumpolar plane? hmm. that is interesting. i never quite thought about that. <br /><br />by the way, i'm a visual artist by trade. i dig your idea. good to meet you, rug <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />

 

[yevaud]

As to those outlying minor galaxies and clusters.<br /><br />You think gravity might have something to do with why they're there? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

i would say yes. gravity probably does. other things may, too, and that is worth brainstorming over. <br /><br />