Orbital and RpK Announce Strategic Relationship

Swampcat · Jul 26, 2006

<center> Orbital and Rocketplane Kistler Announce Strategic Relationship <blockquote>Rocketplane Kistler and Orbital Sciences announced Tuesday that they have entered into a strategic relationship to support the NASA COTS program and other applications of RpK's innovative space transportation system./p></blockquote></center> From the article, it appears that Orbital is taking over just about everything except building the rocket. Of course, Orbital has the experience that RpK needs and doesn't have, so this should be a good partnership. Any thoughts? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

spacefire · Jul 26, 2006

yeah....it's like when two crackheads partner to buy more crack. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.comhttp://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </div>

Swampcat · Jul 26, 2006

spacefire, with all due respect, comments like that are pointless and only make you appear to be a flamer. Help me understand how you could equate Orbital Sciences and Rocketplane Kistler with two crackheads. I bet you can't. What's that quote I'm thinking about? Something like..."it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're a fool than speaking out and proving it." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Jul 26, 2006

Perhaps I was a bit harsh. I disagree with your analogy. It's more like two crackheads...one with a pipe and another with a rock. They need each other <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

spacefire · Jul 26, 2006

I have about 0 faith in Kistler. Too much jabbering without results. Let's say Orbital is the good boy who wants to experiment and Kistler is the uber crackhead. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.comhttp://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </div>

Swampcat · Jul 26, 2006

"I have about 0 faith in Kistler. Too much jabbering without results. Let's say Orbital is the good boy who wants to experiment and Kistler is the uber crackhead." It's easy to say negative things. Granted, RpK hasn't flown anything, but they "claim" to have a vehicle that is 75% complete (WARNING: PDF!!). That's more than just "jabbering." Why would Orbital go into a strategic partnership with RpK if they didn't think there was more to it than smoke and mirrors? Or do you see something Orbital doesn't see? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

qso1 · Jul 27, 2006

swampcat: but they "claim" to have a vehicle that is 75% complete...That's more than just "jabbering." Me: They been saying "75% complete" for years. Its starting to sound like jabbering to me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

Swampcat · Jul 27, 2006

"They been saying "75% complete" for years. Its starting to sound like jabbering to me." OK, point taken, but what about my other question? Why is Orbital getting involved with RpK if RpK has nothing to bring to the table but jabbering? Remember, this is not the old Kistler Aerospace and it's not Space Island Group. IOW, what does Orbital Sciences get out of this relationship if it isn't a 75% complete reusable launch vehicle? Isn't there a possibility that OS can provide needed capital to finish the K-1? Or are they looking at some other aspect of the RpK partnership? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

qso1 · Jul 27, 2006

swampcat: OK, point taken, but what about my other question? Why is Orbital getting involved with RpK if RpK has nothing to bring to the table but jabbering? Remember, this is not the old Kistler Aerospace and it's not Space Island Group. Me: I'm fairly familiar with Kistler but the relationship between Kistler and Orbital sciences is new to me. If no news has been released as to what benefits the relationship has, then it must be as yet not announced or their secret for now. If I had to guess, I'd say your probably right in the idea that Kistler may need capital that O.S. probably has. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

j05h · Jul 27, 2006

If I understand it, Kistler stopped work on the K1 several years ago as they entered bankruptcy. They have a warehouse full of Russian NK33 and NK43 engines, plus the K1 and any test articles. The K1 first stage is done or nearly so: structure, tanks, airbags & chutes, engines, but I'm not sure about avionics and software. Second stage was in a similiar state. I don't buy the "75% complete" moniker, either. The craft might be mostly built, but there is a whole raft of testing and redevelopment to get it in the air. The real killer, IMHO, is that they built the K1 in a very traditional aerospace contracting manner, and their contractors took them to the cleaners. They originally said it would cost $500million to build the first K1, burned through something like $650million and said they needed about the same amount to actually fly. The up side of the K1 is that it will probably work wonderfully if it flies. kistler had a great team and the craft is really top-of-the-line. Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center">We need a first generation of pioneers. </div> </div>

qso1 · Jul 28, 2006

Thats about what I recall. I remember the bankruptcy story and the engines but lost track after that figuring they were done. The K-1 would probably do well if it could be developed to completion. Kistler started as a company with high ambitions. There original proposal was to send humans up in an SSTO. The cover of a 1992 issue of Ad Astra showed that concept. But like many highly ambitious human spaceflight concepts (Roton being another), it became watered down untill humans eventually fell out of the loop and they focused on unmanned satellites. Of course, Roton simply ran out of funding before humans fell out of their loop. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

Swampcat · Jul 28, 2006

Alan Boyle has some more info on this in his Cosmic Log of July 27: Cosmic Log: NEW VS. OLD SPACE Here are some relevant points from that article: <ol type="disc"><li>"...Orbital will provide program management and systems integration services for the K-1 project."</li> <li>Quoting David Thomson, OS's Chaiman and CEO, "Having studied the substantial amount of work that has been accomplished on the K-1 program and the planning that is already in place, we are convinced that it can be operational in a relatively short period of time."</li> <li>"...Orbital's involvement should help his company hit the ground running if NASA green-lights the K-1."</li></ol> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

qso1 · Jul 28, 2006

Thanks for the article, this will update me on the K-1. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

Swampcat · Jul 29, 2006

My pleasure <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

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