Photos of Alien With Astronaut on Moon

[maxtheknife]

<br />Tom: <font color="yellow">2 footprints near each other can appear to be different widths if one in on a slope facing the camera while the other is more horizontal. Its obvious the ground in the photo is very uneven.</font><br /><br />Agreed. But how uneven. The size and scale of the objects in the image is determinable. You need to prove that the slope of the footprint in question is on such a slope as to appear several shoe sizes smaller than the foot print that isn't in question. If you are right about perspective being the cause, the print in question wouldn't be <i><b>that</b></i> much smaller. The difference would be miniscule.<br /><br />Who are you trying to fool? <br /><br />Tom: <font color="yellow">Time to sharpen the ol' Occam's Razor </font><br /><br />Exactly... and take into account all the other legitmate UFO data that abounds. There's lots and lots of it....<br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[maxtheknife]

No, not asking you to leave. Just reminding you that you don't have to waste your time here if you think its all so unscientific.

 

[yevaud]

<i>You're free to leave. </i><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

No thanx, Yevaud... I think I'm going to enjoy my 'Star' status a while longer. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[yevaud]

You misunderstand. You said, "I wasn't suggesting you leave." But the line is from your own post.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[tomnackid]

"....the print in question wouldn't be that much smaller. The difference would be miniscule."<br />-------------------------------------------------<br />/* deleted */<br /><br />The difference in apparent widths would be totally dependent on the angle of the print with respect to the film plane. If one print were perfectly parallel to the film plane and the other were perfectly perpendicular (a difference of 90 degrees) the apparent difference in width would be 100% since the perpendicular print would be reduced to 0 width. Given the nature of the terrain would not be unreasonable to find humps and dips with as much as 45 degrees of slope difference between one step and the next. That would mean one print would appear half the width of the other. (Remember Apollo 17 was intentionally looking for broken, rocky ground.). Most likely the prints are not consecutive steps, but are from 2 separate passes thought the same area.<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />"But how uneven. The size and scale of the objects in the image is determinable."<br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Well, apparently YOU are the one saying the scale of the objects IS NOT determinable! That is your whole thesis unless I'm mistaken. I would assume that the boot prints are both the same width (the most rational assumption) and assuming both prints are about the same distance from the camera (which isn't totally clear in the cropped image--but lets go with that anyway) you could easily determine the difference in slope between one print and the other. If you knew what angle the camera was with respect to the horizon and the actual width of the boot you could determine the angle of each print with respect to the horizon.<br /><br />-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Exactly... and take into account all the other legitmate UF

 

[yevaud]

Yep. The ability to transcend space at velocities we can only guess at, and they can't hide from a lousy Kodak.<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[telfrow]

(Photos cropped from illustrations found at lunararcheoolgy.org)<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

In most parts of the US, 12 points of similarity in a fingerprint are required for a positive ID. I don't know what it is for boot prints. But the picture above has 11. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[yevaud]

'Twas *I* who left the footprint, oh foolish, primitive being.<br /><br />And I wear a size 11, thanks. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[tomnackid]

Great post telfrow! How long did you spend looking for that pic of an Apollo EVA suit boot sole?! <br /><br />I think we should rename this thread "CSI Luna"

 

[telfrow]

As I noted in the post, both the crops are from the same illustration on Apollomissions' site (lunararcheology.org). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[tomnackid]

LOL! Hoisted by his own petard!

 

[telfrow]

Correction: they're from two different illustrations, but both from the site. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Telfrow, for once I think you actually did a good job. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />The only problem I can see after analyzing your image in photoshop is the top right portion of the footprint in question.<br /><br />It seems that section begins to turn inward before the tread count is satisfied.<br /><br />What do you think? I don't have much time here to illustrate my point... maybe tonight....

 

[maxtheknife]

Can you post an image of that boot by itself or link me to where you got it?

 

[maxtheknife]

Tom <font color="yellow">You are sooooooo deluded its almost funny...actually it IS funny!</font><br /><br />Ad hominem anyone? <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[telfrow]

The photos are cropped from illustration found at Apollomissions' site here or this link, which goes directly to the source of the photo.<br /><br />And BTW, if you think that statement is an ad hominem, report it to the mods here.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[geneftw]

"Ad hominem anyone?"<br />Max, what are you trying to say?! You KNOW by now that certain rules apply only to us.

 

[geneftw]

There's a difference in the size of the space between the tread and the edge of the boot.

 

[telfrow]

Yes, there is. And that should come as no surprise, considering the crop shown was taken from Apollomissions' illustration (with arrows and type inserted) which used this photo (AS-17-145-22138). <br /><br />The boot print in question was cropped and then rotated until the orientation matched (approximately) that of the boot thread photo. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Crop from the original photo on the left; rotated crop on the right. <br /><br />Since the edge of the boot print is almost parallel to the camera lens in the original, and there is a slight mounding of dust on that side, you shouldn't expect the distance between the edge of the boot print and the tread to be the same when the image is rotated. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[apollomissions]

The following exchange occurs on page 3 of this post.<br /><br />Max -No matter how you slice it, the evidence is quite intriguing and worthy of further inquiry. <br />Yevaud - A couple of poor photographs and two lousy footprints? <br />(Max) <i>To blow it off as 'stupid' would be scientifically irresponsible. </i> <br />(Yevaud) No, to waste resources on an investigation would be stupid and irresponsible. <br /><br />Max - No, but I can say with certainty that the small size of the footprint in question is not a matter of perspective. <br />------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Max – You are correct in stating that the small size of the boot print in the Station 5 image can not be explained away as a matter of perspective. The prints are far too close together. One of the other unrealistic proposals made earlier in the thread is that unevenness of the ground surface could be creating such a distorted appearance. <br /><br />Telfrow has made a new labeled image presentation to explain his position. I find his labeled image interesting. Telfrow does not address width, length, and radius differentials. The ridge count does not correlate to U.S. boots. He merely connects 11 lines between the two images and declares a match. I look upon telfrow’s presentation similar to the way I view the labeled image where ebarcum drew in the non-existent front of the camera on the unknown figure in the <i>ALEN POSED FOR A PICTURE thread. </i><br /><br />The answer for those people in doubt of the disparity in boot size is to attempt to replicate their explanations as to what is being viewed. I will predict with confidence that the size differential in close proximity as seen in the image cannot be duplicated or even approximated using the same size boot.<br /><br />I have no animosity towards Yevaud, telfrow, or Leovinus. I like these guys. They all contribute to this forum in many differ

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">Telfrow has made a new labeled image presentation to explain his position. I find his labeled image interesting. Telfrow does not address width, length, and radius differentials.</font><br /><br />Okay, let's take a look at it, AM.<br /><br />First, and perhaps most importantly, the footprint is not pristine. The following shows the cropped area of the photographs where the footprints occur. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

There are at least eight different prints in this area (excluding the "neighbor" print). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>