Planet Incubation - When a moon becomes a planet

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funkyvudu

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Maybe this has already been asked or proposed but… Is it possible that a large percentage of planetary systems are made of gas giants & that the moons become planets as the sun devours the gas giant? It seems we see a great number of gas giant planets around stars… Could it be those planets that harbor the solar systems we seek? It would seem that a star could dispose of a giant gas planet before its moons were destroyed. Could Earth, Mars, Mercury, etc. (or planets like them) all have been part of a moon system of a giant gas planet(s)? We are just discovering a possible methane ocean on Titan, which has been described as primordial earth, maybe as Saturn becomes inevitably closer to the sun Titan will sustain life on a grander scale. Anyone? Thanks for your time.<br />P.S. If this is simply preposterous, please explain.
 
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jeepmonkey

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I don't believe that the 4 inner, rocky planets started as moons of a gas giant. The "larger" elements were pulled closer to the sun because of gravity. It was harder for the heavier elements to escape the suns gravity than say the gases that make up the giant planets.<br /><br />The planets of the solar system were formed as particles eventually come together by gravity. They also gained mass from things such as asteroids colliding into the forming planets.<br /><br />I would assume that if a gas giant had a large moon, and that moon was knocked out of its orbit, that it the star may be able to hold onto it and put it in an orbit around itself. Or the moon could possibly crash into a developing planet and simply be absorbed.<br /><br />Isn't there a belief that says our own moon was a piece of the earth that was "knocked loose" from the earth by a large asteroid? Then the earth was large enough to keep the moon from escaping the earth's gravity.<br /><br />I have seen a few documentaries on other solar systems and the planets we have been able to detect. It appears many of them are gas giants, and very few smaller, rocky planets. Some believe that there star has already absorbed the inner, rocky planets of that solar system, if there were rocky planets there to begin with.<br /><br />Not sure if this answers any of your questions, I may just be rambling here.
 
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nexium

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Most of our planets are in near circular orbits, so it seems unlikely that they were ever moons of a hot Jupiter that was devoured by our Sun<br />If Sol had a hot jupiter in the proto star phase 4.6 billion years ago; the gas and plasma might have been swept away by the very strong solar wind. The moons of the hot jupiter (if any) would likely be in a highly eliptical solar orbit now. Neil
 
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funkyvudu

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Would the moons (planets) already have a near circular orbit due to the fact that they are orbiting a planet with a near circular orbit? In my minds eye I can see the host planet becoming smaller & losing it's influence over the moons & simply "dropping them off". As the deterioration progresses, assuming this would be gradual, I can see the moons falling under the influence of the star, as the gravitational force from the planet releases it, creating a near circular orbit. (???) Possibly explaining why the smaller planets are closer to the star, falling away in order of mass & structure.<br />Thanks for your response... I am trying to be a bit creative & think outside of the box here.
 
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the_bearcat

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JeepMonkey: "I have seen a few documentaries on other solar systems and the planets we have been able to detect. It appears many of them are gas giants, and very few smaller, rocky planets. Some believe that there star has already absorbed the inner, rocky planets of that solar system, if there were rocky planets there to begin with. " <br /><br />We do not yet possess the technology to detect smaller rocky planets, so the only extra solar planets we are able to detect are going to be gas giants. You have to look at our frame of reference.
 
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funkyvudu

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You are correct about the belief regarding Earth's moon. I am trying to figure out different possibilities since so often we discover what we KNEW was incorrect or not applicable to all situations.<br />Thinking out loud, if you will. Seems with the discovery of so many giant gas planets (realizing the near impossibility to see small planets at this time) that maybe there are more moons, like Titan, in position to become Earth-like as they approach their respective "sun".<br />I realize the formation of rocky planets & moons occurs thru "stardust", meteors, collisions & such... But do the gas planets somehow incubate some moons to become planets as we know them. Leaving them behind after the gas giants are swept away.<br />Thanks for your response... any additional input is always welcomed.
 
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alokmohan

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Planet fornation not well understood sory.What is a plant is also not well defined.
 
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funkyvudu

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Any interest in this idea... or is it just too crazy? Any input is appreciated.
 
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vogon13

Guest
Sufficiently close to the host star (and this criteria seems to be met frequently by the hot Jupiters found so far) the moons (should they exist) will evaporate faster than the massive amount of high Z materials in the core of the 'hot Jupiter' planet.<br /><br />A moon larger than the core of the host planet would have accreted to a larger size than the host and been the host itself, if you catch my drift.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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newtonian

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funkyvudu - A moon could become a planet by another method.<br /><br />Our moon is slowly receeding in orbit - so slowly it may never reach escape velocity. This is due to tidal interactions.<br /><br />Other moons may receed from their host planets faster, achieve escape velocity and become planets - just a guess, btw.<br /><br />Another way a moon could become a planet is if the host planet is impacted by a large body (comet, asteroid, etc.) and loses sufficient mass to hold on to its moon, at which point the moon could assume an independent planetary orbit - another guess.
 
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CalliArcale

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Our Moon is not expected to ever escape Earth, unless something really astoundingly cataclysmic happens. Its recession will stop when it and the Earth become mutually synchronous (like Pluto and Charon). However, although I don't know the math to figure it out, I understand there is some debate whether this would have time to occur before the Sun becomes a supergiant, potentially altering the situation and potentially even destroying both the Earth and the Moon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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vogon13

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Well................<br /><br />Gravitational attraction between earth and moon is currently 46% that of attraction between sun and moon.<br /><br />So it has already happened. {Gasp!}<br /><br />No biggee, though, no large perturbating bodies nearby to upset the apple cart so shine on August moon.<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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newtonian

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vogon13 -???<br /><br />I believe Calli was referring to synchronous rotation negating tidal effects between the earth and moon.<br /><br />That has not happenned on earth (the moon does indeed always have the same side facing earth, but earth does not always have the same side facing the moon) - witness the tides.
 
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newtonian

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Calli - That makes sense Biblically (earth and moon remaning forever). See Psalms 72:7<br /><br />(Psalm 89:37) . . .As the moon it will be firmly established for time indefinite, And [as] a faithful witness in the skies.” . . .<br /><br />The Hebrew word translated time indefinite (some translations say forever) is not adh ( the Hebrew word for forever) but rather ohlam.<br /><br />Ohlam literally means "hidden or concealed time." And it is indeed difficult to calculate factors involving the distant future (billions of years from now) of our moon - those "times" are still to some extent concealed albeit scientists are learning fast!<br /><br />How would one calculate that since it is not just rotation speed but also axis of rotation involved?<br /><br />I.e., I would expect almost synchronous but not quite - especially while there are still tidal interactions between sun and earth! <br /><br />BTW - earth's orbit is also receeding, and partly due to solar loss of mass to complicate extrapolations based on tidal interactions alone!<br /><br />The latter has a bearing on the solar red giant phase: how cataclysmic will it be for earth?<br /><br />There was an article not long ago in Scientific American on when stars collide which indicated that main sequence stars colliding with a brown dwarf can rejuvenate a main sequence star.<br /><br />Brown dwarfs would mostly be dark matter - not able to be observed - so we cannot determine if such a future merger is already set and fine tuned.<br /><br />However, Andromeda will be much closer when our sun nears red giant phase - and that merger could also have an effect on the number of brown dwarfs perturbed towards our sun's vicinity.
 
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