Rocketplane Kistler selects software

[holmec]

Wow, this is the first news I've heard since the COTS grant was given to them.<br /><br />Article <br /><br /> />UGS has announced Rocketplane Kistler selected NX(R) software, UGS digital product development solution, to design, build and test its Kistler K-1 aerospace vehicle. < <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[bpfeifer]

This isn't really the first news of them. Within the first month of the COTS contract award their prime contractor, Orbital Science, pulled out of the effort. About a month later, ATK came on board as prime contractor. <br /><br />RPK is not behaving the way most of the other startups are. Instead of building and testing hardware, they are actimg more like a project manager, and hiring other companies to the work. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[holmec]

Interesting. Do you know of any main link to get updates on the K-1 project then? I've been struggling to get any to the point where I didn't think they were doing anything. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[ldyaidan]

I checked their website, to see if there were any updates. It shows that their rocket is better than 70% complete, but no dates are listed on any of the info, so I don't know how old it is. <br /><br />Rae

 

[bpfeifer]

"Do you know of any main link to get updates on the K-1 project then?"<br /><br />No more than you can find on google, but I am on ATK's press release mailing list. I got some of the details from them.<br /><br />-------------<br /><br />Rocketplane Kistler and ATK Announce Agreement for K-1 Launch Vehicle and COTS Program Inbox<br /> Alliant Techsystems News <br /><news@atk.mediaroom.com /> to atk<br /> More options Nov 8<br />News Release Issued: November 8, 2006 12:17 PM EST<br /><br />Rocketplane Kistler and ATK Announce Agreement for K-1 Launch Vehicle and<br />COTS Program<br /><br />ATK Will Lead Vehicle Development, Vehicle Assembly, Integration and Test,<br />and Launch and Landing Site Operations<br /><br />OKLAHOMA CITY and SALT LAKE CITY, Nov. 8 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ --<br />Rocketplane Kistler (RpK) and Alliant Techsystems (NYSE: ATK) announced today<br />that ATK will become the lead contractor for RpK's K-1 launch vehicle, which<br />was recently awarded a Space Act Agreement by NASA for the Commercial Orbital<br />Transportation Services (COTS) program. The K-1 is a fully reusable space<br />transportation system designed to provide cost-effective and reliable<br />transport of cargo and science payloads to and from the International Space<br />Station (ISS).<br /><br />(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20061108/CGW047 )<br /><br />Under terms of the agreement, ATK will provide launch vehicle development,<br />assembly, integration and test of the launch system, and will conduct launch<br />and landing site development and launch vehicle preparation for the K-1. ATK<br />will also develop and produce critical composite structures and subsystems for<br />the pressurized and unpressurized K-1 cargo modules, and conduct vehicle<br />recovery and refurbishment.<br /><br />"ATK is a great partner with demonstrated experience and skills that<br />strengthen our team," said Randy Brinkley, R <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[bpfeifer]

"It shows that their rocket is better than 70% complete"<br /><br />Is that 70% by weight, by volume, by cost, by number of subsystems? I they had more hard information available. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>>> "It shows that their rocket is better than 70% complete"<br /> /> Is that 70% by weight, by volume, by cost, by number of subsystems? I they had more hard information available.</i><br /><br />It's 70% by good marketing. The K1 has been 75% complete for almost a decade - it's another hangar queen built the old, expensive way. Kistler burned through nearly $1Billion trying to build it, then proceeded to go belly-up. I'm not very confident in RpK or ATK finishing it. <br /><br />IIRC, the vehicle's 1st and 2nd stage tankage, intertanks, thrust structures were completed. They contracted much of the structures out to LockMart. The avionics may be done, but would be completely outdated now, as would any original software. Kistler had a warehouse full of Russian NK 33 and 43 engines, but I don't know what the status of that is - they had enough engines to build several K1s. Hanging issues probably include approach/docking hardware, the cargo capsules, TPS, new health-monitoring and thousands of hours of integration.<br /><br />The "70%" number is handwaving, because everyone knows the last 10% takes 90% of your time. I'd be more confident if Rocketplane had flown something beefier than a Lear jet. <br /><br />The only up-side to this is that if they succeed in flying the K1, perhaps ATK will give up on developing the ludicrous Stick and put the CEV on a K1 instead. <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

Have the actually flown that deathtrap^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h learjet yet?

 

[j05h]

<i>> Have the actually flown that deathtrap^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h learjet yet?</i><br /><br />Yes, at the X Prize Cup. Well, not the Lear with the rocket engine, but one wiht the heads-up display of the rocket-racing raceway. <br /><br />Josh<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[holmec]

thanks for the info. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>>> "Yes, at the X Prize Cup. Well, not the Lear with the rocket engine, but one wiht the heads-up display of the rocket-racing raceway. "<br /> /> Are you referring to the Long Eazy with the rocket engine stuck in the back. That has nohardware that will feed into the "death trap lear jet" spaceship. </i><br /><br />No, not the Long EZ. The craft at the X Prize Cup was a big Lear (bigger than the RpK conversion Lear) and it was flying loops and demonstrating the "virtual racetrack" system for use in the Rocket Racing League. They also had a model suborbital Lear as well, but it didn't look like it had any kind of engines. This seems to be as close to flying a rocket as they've gotten in a decade of operation. I'm really un-confident in RpK's abilities. What exactly have they accomplished? The founders left years ago. Don't get me wrong, I wish them all the luck, but performance counts.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[spacester]

At the risk of oversimplifying, I now have a lot of confidence in RPK due to the validation implicit in the COTS win.<br /><br />It's been a 30% empty glass for some time now. Maybe they lost some to evaporation, so now I see it as a 60% full glass. Simply because NASA toured the facilities and scrutinized the reality on the floor and in the end gave them the contract.<br /><br />Both groups, over the years, Kistler in Microsoft country, and Rocketplane in OK, on a personal level, have always struck me as sincere and forthright professionals. I've always wanted to believe in the 70%. As said, in reality, that kind of 70% ends up being 50% at best in the end, but so be it. As long as there <b>is</b> an end.<br /><br />Call it creative financing and build rockets and fly them.<br /><br />I think the contracting-out announcements are a very good sign. It's called 'sticking to your core competencies'. Plus, the requirements for most of these contracts ought to be well-defined at this stage of the game, so that should keep things on time and on budget. The new budget, from the new money. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

Spacester, 'creative' accounting on a prospectus, otherwise known as fraud, is a felony.

 

[spacester]

Oh please. I said Financing, not Accounting, There's a difference.<br /><br />It is not uncommon for a new technology to see its original champion die of starvation, but to see the next true believer to pick over the body and get the base tech for pennies on the dollar. Sometimes it takes two or more cycles before the cost barrier is broken.<br /><br />That's all I meant by 'creative financing'. Do you have inside dirt on these guys? Are you making an accusation? Or just trying to start a rumor? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[holmec]

Sounds good then. This eases my concern that about RPK. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>