Russian Mission to Phobos

[jmilsom]

Just saw this on Yahoo News. I knew nothing about this mission before:<br /><br /><b>Russian space general searches for life on Mars</b><br /><br />KHIMKI, Russia (AFP) - In an anonymous compound next to a suburban Moscow shopping centre a retired Russian army general is planning his next galactic conquest. .....<br /><br />.....The three-year mission is the cornerstone of Russia's bid to reclaim a leading role in robotic planetary exploration after the long lull that followed the glory days of Soviet space exploration.<br /><br />Russia dusted off exploration plans after US President George W. Bush unveiled an ambitious programme in 2004 to return to the Moon and launch a manned mission to Mars.<br /><br />Such missions cost "several billion dollars," Polishchuk said. The programme will be funded 75 percent by the Russian state and 25 percent by selling off spare room on board to other space agencies.<br /><br />The probe, called Phobos-Grunt, will set off in October 2009 from the Baikonur cosmodrome on a Soyuz-2 rocket for Phobos, one of Mars' two tiny moons, to collect soil samples and bring them back to Earth.<br /><br />FULL STORY HERE<br /><br />Anyone know anything further on this one? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

This is the first I've heard of this. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[syndroma]

http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=461231&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

 

[jmilsom]

Thanks Syndroma. I did hunt for a thread before posting, but did not realise one existed. Bump the other thread. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

Now this is useful martian science. Why didn't NASA think of doing this?

 

[qso1]

Probably because you can accomplish the same thing without landing on Phobos. I would think that they are going to have some Phobos related tasks in addition to looking at Mars for signs of life from Phobos.<br /><br />It is highly unlikely that they will be able to say conclusively that there is life on Mars but will see I guess. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Scientifically sample return is about an order of magnitude more valuable then remote sensing. Assuming of course you get the sample back!<br /><br />NASA has generally baulked at the challenge of sample return missions. Not sure why. Genesis and Stardust are the exceptions. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

NASA probably balks at sample return missions on grounds of cost mainly although I wasn't aware they actually balked at sample return missions. But sample return missions, especially a mission as complex as landing on Phobos although that would seem to me to be less a challenge than landing on Mars itself, would still be more expensive than just an orbital mission for determining chemical signatures for biology. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

I rather opt for mars.

 

[qso1]

I agree simply because of the possibility of finding life and thats easier to do from the surface of Mars. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

In principle NASA does not baulk at sample return missions. There have been many studies. But with the notable exception of Genesis and Stardust, which were relatively simple, low cost sample return mission missions, every proposal for lunar and Martian sample return has been either dropped or shifted so far to the right as to be over the planning horizon. In contrast contracts have already been let for the ESA Mars sample return.<br /><br />Orbital missions and sample return missions to different things, and there is a place for both. But for detailed studies of the materials of Phobos (or anywhere else for that matter) there is no substitute for sample return for the range of possible analyses, or the precision or accuracy to which they can be carried out.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[mrcolumbus]

I am not sure about the ESA Mars Sample Return mission. I know there are some studies on that, but not within an actual Sample Return mission. It will still take some years until they get into a prelim design phase on that. First comes ExoMars in 2013. Mars Sample Return may get off the ground at some point between 2018-2020...

 

[JonClarke]

Contracts have already been let on the groundwork for the MSR mission. http://www.space.eads.net/press-center/archives/2004/137<br /><br />Many obstacles to be overcome, including a successful ExoMars mission, which will prove much of the technology needed. But things are moving in the right direction.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[mithridates]

Phobos looks to be a pretty good idea. The escape velocity is only 11 m/s so any spacecraft can get off it with no problem, it's really close to Mars (6000 km) so you can conduct observations of the planet at the same time, and also it rotates every seven hours so I suppose that would make it easier to charge as you wouldn't need a battery to survive the entire 12 hours or so of night you might get on Mars. Although Mars might block off quite a bit of the light from time to time so maybe that would cancel out any advantage:<br /><br />"As seen from Phobos, Mars would be 6400 times larger and 2500 times brighter than the full Moon as seen from Earth, taking up a full 1/4 of the width of a celestial hemisphere."<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[tohaki]

Has this mission been fully funded? If they are launching it in 2009 they must have begun already.

 

[alokmohan]

If one ever visits phobos and jumos in joy ,he will be thrown to space.Fun?

 

[mithridates]

It would be possible but 40 kph is the speed of a sprinter so it would take a bit of work. I just noticed something on another board though that I had never thought of before:<br /><br />"It is quite amazing to realize that I could stand on a Martian moon and I could terrorize the Martian surface by pelting it with appropriately directed baseballs as often as I wish. It would be interesting to figure the enourmous increase in energy by which my feeble baseballs would decsimate the surface of Mars. [8)](Assuming I could keep my baseballs from burning up in the Martian atmosphere). Or I could take a free ride on my bicycle in in a chosen direction such that I will end up on the surface of Mars (with quite an impact I might add)!![g)] <br /><br />It makes me think that Phobos may one day be a very stategic place if Mars ever becomes inhabited. <br />Just a thought.[] "<br /><br />http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-3327.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[Aetius]

You should read Kim Stanley Robinson's <i>Mars Trilogy</i>. Phobos is like a floating Rock Of Gibraltar, 3800 miles above the surface of Mars.<br /><br />If Mars is eventually colonized, whoever controls Phobos will control the destiny of an entire world.<br /><br />Colonial powers on Mars, should they exist, would be wise to either declare the moon a weapon-free zone...or arm it to the teeth, and share control with each other in order to crush rebel uprisings.

 

[JonClarke]

I believe the funding committment is quite strong.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I hope so. It would be one of the better investments we can make at the moment IMO. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Definitely!<br /><br />But the way, this mission is also known as Phobos Grunt, if you want to search the internet. Grunt is the closest English and the Roman script can get to transliterating the Russian/cyrllic word for soil.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[montmein69]

I posted almost the same info on the other thread <<Phobos soil>><br /><br />http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/ESA_Permanent_Mission_in_Russia/SEMIJFW4QWD_0.html<br /><br /><<High priority />> suggests it is on the track ... but nobody knows exactly.<br /><br />A Mars Sample Return mission is an exciting challenge. <br />A collaboration between space agencies would be useful as well for funding as for sharing technology skills.<br /><br />But after ISS half_success / half_ failure such an international collaboration is half-dream / half_nightmare <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[j05h]

> If Mars is eventually colonized, whoever controls Phobos will control the destiny of an entire world. <br /><br />This was discussed in my "Private Mars Mission" thread. I focused on an infrastructure/water-mining operation on Phobos as the starter for profitable Mars missions. Phobos has a laundry-list of advantages (IMHO) over every other body in the Solar System. I really like the description of it as a Rock of Gibraltar.<br /><br />http://uplink.space.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=503952&page=&view=&sb=&o=<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[tohaki]

It seems China is involved in the programme now.<br /><br />http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/08/23/marssamples.shtml

 

[bdewoody]

Maybe they have the Andromeda Syndrome phobia <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>