Shuttle_guy questions....

[Astrosag]

Yeah, companies do put a limit on it. From what I read and researched at Boeing, the cuttoff was a C-....which is quite low. BUT, most, if not all, master's programs kick you out if you go below a 3.0 (from what i know). The reason i suppose the C- is in place is b/c not everyone goes for master's. Boeing allows people to take classes towards another Bachelors or even classes that just interest people- "even basket weaving" as the saying went. It is a nice offer, but I may shoot to try landing admission in a grad program (cross my fingers) straight out of undergrad and postpone working for a bit- unless I get an awesome internship. I did apply for one doing structural analysis on ISS components, but I'm a year under the requirement (schoolwise)- but who knows, couldn't hurt applying; it was just one click of a mouse button!

 

[SpaceKiwi]

""Does anyone know what part of the tank the foam came off? Maybe only the upper half of the tank has to be addressed.""<br /><br />The foam is believed to have come off the ET at the forward attach point between the tank and the Orbiter. I believe that area had been problematic, and not only confined to the instance of Columbia, so that's why they came up with the heater solution in place of the foam.<br /><br />Foam shedding has always been a problem since day dot of the program, so it has always been about managing the risk. Hopefully they have got it right enough now with this latest round of mods. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[crix]

I hope it's the Shuttle-Z then. It looks massive!

 

[SpaceKiwi]

C'mon SG, when are you going to tease us all with a little more info from your "covert ops"?<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[propforce]

Shuttle_Guy is probably participating in a highly hush-hush NASA Space Exploration planning <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Of course, if he tells ya, he might have to kill ya !! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

Hehehe. Hopefully he's involved in some independent hush-hush USA space exploration planning for a generous benefactor other than the US government. I can always dream I suppose.<br /><br />And, if he were to tell me, I'd stand a good shot of survival I reckon ... he knows the NZ Bureau is already a day ahead of Florida HQ! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

When I was in grad school in the 1980s, there were really only three grades - A was for well above average performance, B was what most people got, and C was an F.<br /><br />I remember a professor coming tio me a day or two after the final in a course and asking me what grade I thought I deserved. I told him I did well, but nothing extra special, I thought I deserved a B. I ended up with an A because it turned out I had the best grades in the class, and the guy behind me with the second highest score had never gotten a B...<br /><br />Off topic...sorry.<br /><br />If you are going to work and go to school, you need to make sure that there are schools around that are used to that sort of situation in a grad school setting. "Traditional" graduate schools are used to full-time folks slaving away with no life. The professors - I kid you not - expect that sort of commitment.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[silylene old]

I cannot imagine getting a PhD in a technical field and holding a job at the same time. Similar to drwayne, my graduate school experience (in the early 80s) was a 60 hrs/week committment. But it was fun. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[Astrosag]

Yeah I completely agree, professors reserve the right to expect that. If there went lenient on those who worked at the same time, a grad degree would probably be a joke.<br /><br />That grading system is what it is now too...you can't get below a 3.0 in a Master's (at least in engineering i know for sure). My profs tel me that you can't fail a class at all for PhD or you're booted out of the program. <br /><br />The way I see it, if I get into a good grad school straight after undergrad, I will get my master's/PhD then. If not, then I will work first and attempt to get my master's- but if I take this track, its highly doubtful I'd get a Phd....but you never know. My worry right now is getting into the good schools....my first two years of undergrad were far from spectacular (grade wise)- though activity (leadership and projects) wise i was "on top of the game". But I'm doing MUCH better in my major courses.<br /><br />And I understand that to even consider a PhD program, one really needs a passion for school, for research. I haven't had enough of my major courses to decide what field I like the best or whether I want to pursue a PhD. But having said that, I also don't want to come to a situation where I want to pursue a PhD but don't have the qualifications to do it....I want at the least the option of going.<br /><br />By the way where did you go for master's and what major? Same questions to you too silylene. Thanks. Have a good day all.

 

[drwayne]

I got my BA in physics from Vassar, my MS and my Ph.D. were from the University of Alabama.<br /><br />Masters are funny, in that they mean different things at different institutions. At some schools, a Masters is somewhat of a consolation prize, in some cases coming in tandem with a boot in the back because one did not pass one's qualifiers.<br /><br />At Alabama, it was something they expect you to do as a step towards your Ph.D.<br /><br />One warning/thought. Make sure that you do some reearch about advisors and try to work with an advisor that has a track record of producing degrees. I knew some folks that got trapped for years by advisors who never let them finish a degree...either from not wanting the slaves off the plantation to plain incompetence.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[Astrosag]

Thats very interesting and very cool (love physics). Yes one thing that I have been told over and over again is not to choose or be "blinded" by rankings or prestige alone but by where my research interests lie. <br /><br />And also from what I hear, at many schools, they do not award just Masters of Science. I hear that at schools like MIT and Cal tech, you are expected to complete the PhD track and rarely do these schools accept students only seeking for a master's.

 

[silylene old]

<font color="yellow">I hear that at schools like MIT and Cal tech, you are expected to complete the PhD track and rarely do these schools accept students only seeking for a master's. </font><br />At least in my field, the top 5 schools did not accept Masters candidates. When I was in grad school, Masters were only being offered only to grad students who tried for a PhD, but had failed their quals or failed their cumes. These guys had done a lot of good work, it was rather sad to see them not completely meet their goals.<br /><br />I mostly think a Masters is a waste of time, unless you intend to become a HS teacher. It will gain you a very minimal salary increment compared to a Bachelors if you work in industry, and a Masters will not qualify you to apply for most college positions. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[Astrosag]

I see...<br /><br />What field did you study in and at what schools (and what degrees?), if you dont mind me asking?<br /><br />The more I look into the top schools, the more discouraging it is...sadly. I didn't do well the first two years (below a 3.0)- but i did many extracirrics and landed an internship with Boeing. I am imporving my grades, but still....its not very encouraging seeing that I won't have a cumm. of 3.5 or above (which isn't even considered high for top schools). Now I understand that nothing is black and white w/ grad school reqs...i.e: 3.5 isn't descriptive- class rank is more descriptive and the fact that you consider schools that are strong in your research interests not just overall rankings. But nonetheless, its going to be a large uphill battle for me. Just wish I could reverse these last two years (and i came into college thinking- "I wont look back and regret it"). Oh wells. Thanks for the info though, can't hurt.

 

[drwayne]

As you (and I) pointed out, in many programs, a Masters is a consolation prize that accompanies your ticket out of town.<br /><br />There are also other schools where a Masters is something that happens on the way to your Ph.D., if you take the time to fll out the right forms.<br /><br />Our Ph.D. requirements included:<br />(1) A written exam (the Physics GRE when I was there)<br />(2) An oral exam (That was the terror)<br />(3) Foreign language qualifers - (2 languages, or one language and a research technique - which for me was an exam on computers)<br />(4) Math qualifier (this went away right before I entered the program- Yes!)<br /><br />In Physics by the way, there was a lot of difference between a Masters and a B.S. outside of academia. Generally speaking, it was darn close to impossible to get a good job as a newly minted BS in Physics in industry - you needed a Masters to get a door opened most of the time. Of course, a Ph.D. helps a lot more.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[najab]

And things are different in the British system too. We do the M.Phil rather than a M.Sc. - a M.Phil is basically a PhD without the defence - the degree is awarded entirely on the quality of the thesis. It's more than half of a PhD, most people here take their MPhil thesis, add a chapter or two and defend it as a PhD.<p>Now if only I could finish <b>my</b> damned thesis.</p>

 

[Astrosag]

What are you studying Najab?

 

[najab]

Computer Science. Specifically I'm working on a new (and not much improved) protocol for Voice over IP.

 

[silylene old]

astrosag:<br /><br />I got a BS in chemistry at UNO in 1980 and a PhD in chemistry (inorganic/polymer) from U Wisconsin-Madison in 1984.<br /><br />Entry qualifications were similar to drwayne's:<br />1. Had to pass 3 of the 4 ACS exams at the 90+% percentile, or get an "A" in the respective entry graduate courses ("A-" doesn't count!...physical, inorganic, organic and analytical). Fail this requirement and you are tracked for a Master's.<br />2. Pass the "RP" (research proposal), which is a oral presentation/exam to a faculty group about a proposed research subject <i>outside</i> of your research specialty.<br />3. 18 credits of graduate chemistry coursework, "B" or better.<br />4. Accumulate 12 points in "cumes" (cumulative exams), which are monthly exams on any surprise subject. Can get up to 3 points per cume.<br />5. Write and have a PhD thesis approved.<br />6. Pass the PhD oral exam. (if you get to this point, it is easy) <br /><br />Most people who had trouble finishing grad school had problems with #4 and/or #5. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[drwayne]

My dissertation defense was pretty easy. It should be, it was *my* project, so if I don't know more about it than the committee, I don't deserve a degree.<br /><br />During the time I was there, I *did* see someone have a disseration defense turned down, but that was a weird situation in which the grad student in question had a falling out with his advisor. Legal action followed, along with another defense, with a court reporter present, and the guy was passed.<br /><br />The guy in question by the way was/is darn good, better than me, so politics can play in this stuff.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Silylene,<br /><br />In your career, how did you learn about getting research funded / writing proposals etc.<br /><br />I had a *great* advisor who taught me a lot, so I got some research funding, but there wasn't a formal process for really learning the business part of things.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

By the way, my MS and PhD were using Electron Spin Resonance. Did a lot of work with organic single crystals - mostly purines...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[Astrosag]

How difficult was it to get into good grad programs for both you and silyene? Do you think competition has greatly increased?- I do understand that your opinions or accounts are mainly unique to your field of studies (but we have a chem and physics ..so that gives an idea of science). By the way, what did you do ( or what are doing) with your PhDs?

 

[silylene old]

drwayne: We were taught nothing about getting grants / proposal writing / whatever. It was if you were born with that knowledge. I didn't know anything about it either. Rather odd, isn't that? The only thing we had to write as grad students were our journal papers and our thesis. I wrote my first real grant proposal 3 years after graduation, while working in industry, seeking research funding from SEMATECH (success!). <br /><br />A couple of people in our group did their thesis work on ESR too. They were making cyclotetrasilanes, reducing the molecule with NaK to add an electron, and then taking the ESR at some cold temperature. The results were really cool, since the electron was delocalized over the cyclosilane, giving a classical "electron in a square" ESR signal.<br /><br />My last hobby project in grad school was to make a octasilacubane....so the ESR after reduction would have been a classic "electron in a box". I succeede in making the (impure) molecule according to NMR and mass spec ...but it always oxidized during workup and I couldn't purify it sufficiently to publish the result or to take a valid ESR spectrum. I didn't put a lot of effort into this, since I already had my job offer and thesis already written at the time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[Astrosag]

Also, another big questino i have is: For your fields, how important was/is the name of the insitution- what i mean to ask is, in the end, does it really matter where you went and if so, in what cases does it matter?<br /><br />When interning, I met people from MIT and Stanford and etc. but they were in the same spot I was, making the same money as I was. I also met an older MIT Alumn who said that what college you went to didnt matter after getting the job....but that was private industry and thus applied mainly to BS degrees.

 

[drwayne]

It was fairly easy for me to get into grad school, but then again, Alabama is not MIT. I graduated from Vassar with honors, so that helped. I had to take the general GRE, which was not a big deal.<br /><br />Note though that I was doing this in 1981.<br /><br />I joined the aerospace industry out of grad school. I spent the first 4 1/2 years doing lab work on infrared materials - and the last 12 or so doing "technical expert" stuff ranging from programming/software to infrared detectors to infrared scene generation. Sort of a high-tech court jester. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />The job I work now, I get to write papers for an annual SPIE conference, which is cool.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>