Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoenix Lander results

[rlb2]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

Tiny frozen microbe may hold clues to extra-terrestrial life

A novel bacterium that has been trapped more than three kilometres under glacial ice in Greenland for over 120 000 years, may hold clues as to what life forms might exist on other planets.

“These extremely cold environments are the best analogues of possible extraterrestrial habitats”, said Dr Loveland-Curtze, “The exceptionally low temperatures can preserve cells and nucleic acids for even millions of years. H glaciei is one of just a handful of officially described ultra-small species and the only one so far from the Greenland ice sheet; studying these bacteria can provide insights into how cells can survive and even grow under extremely harsh conditions, such as temperatures down to -56˚C, little oxygen, low nutrients, high pressure and limited space.”

http://www.sgm.ac.uk/news/releases/IJS.0609.JLC.cfm

 

[rlb2]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

An analysis of the images indicates water carved a 30-mile-long canyon that opened up into a valley, depositing sediment that formed a large delta, the researchers conclude. This delta and others surrounding the basin imply the existence of a large, long-lived lake, said Hynek, also an assistant professor in CU-Boulder's geological sciences department. The presumed lake bed is located within a much larger valley known as the Shalbatana Vallis.

"Finding shorelines is a Holy Grail of sorts to us," said Brian Hynek, also of CU-Boulder.
In addition, the evidence shows the lake existed during a time when Mars is generally believed to have been cold and dry, which is at odds with current theories proposed by many planetary scientists, he said. "Not only does this research prove there was a long-lived lake system on Mars, but we can see that the lake formed after the warm, wet period is thought to have dissipated."

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090617-mars-lake.html

New Pan color image I made from raw images at Spirits resting grounds...

Right click on image go to properties to get full ULR place that you can cut and paste to see full panoramic image.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

I guess you don't read anybody's threads but your own...see ancient lakes thread.

 

[rlb2]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

MeterorWayne - I guess you don't read anybody's threads but your own...see ancient lakes thread.

This applies to this subject matter........... I don’t like you.

You tarnished my name and even claimed I was spreading false rumors which were lies and slanderous.... You have so many other user names that you used one of your invent a friends to try to supporting your case when other people that you successfully bullied doesn’t help you out. soooooooooooooooo get off my back.......You bullying thug..........

 

[MeteorWayne]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

Fine, you want to play that game?

You have now accused me of

"You tarnished my name and even claimed I was spreading false rumors which were lies and slanderous.... You have so many other user names that you used one of your invent a friends to try to supporting your case when other people that you successfully bullied doesn’t help you out. soooooooooooooooo get off my back.......You bullying thug.........."

MOD HAT ON****

To my knowledge I have never claimed you were spreading false rumors. Prove it

You have accused me of having many other user names (which is not true BTW) Prove it.

You have called me a bullying thug... Prove it.

I don't dislike you, I don't know why you dislike me.

This is not optional

 

[rlb2]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

MeteroWaney - MOD HAT ON****

To my knowledge I have never claimed you were spreading false rumors. Prove it

You have accused me of having many other user names (which is not true BTW) Prove it.

You have called me a bullying thug... Prove it.

I don't dislike you, I don't know why you dislike me.

This is not optional

rlb2 - I've got the evidence; I'm not playing your game. I know you are a moderator, an agent of space.com, this is the last time I will return your message........

 

[CalliArcale]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

*MOD HAT ON*

If you've got the evidence, provide it. You have made very serious accusations which would not be tolerated about a regular user. When said about a moderator, they are even more serious, because we cannot tolerate having a moderator whose ethics are compromised. If he's really been doing that sort of thing, we need to know about it. If you really do have the evidence, and if you care at all about this community, you should forward it on to myself or one of the other mods, or even go to our bosses and sent it to Imaginova. (Click "Contact Us" at the bottom, or just PM doublehelix or spaceadmin.) That is, unless you don't really have any evidence and are just lashing out at MeteorWayne, in which case, you'd be making false accusations against another user purely for the sake of making him feel bad. The classic ad hominem attack, and one we do not tolerate.

You've been here long enough to know that, rlb2.

Now, we do give more latitude when it's a mod you're accusing, precisely because it's so important for us mods to be above reproach. But you still need to provide evidence. Also, you really shouldn't do it in a thread in the public forums, because it immediately disrupts those threads. You should make such reports using the "Report Post" feature, by PM to a mod or admin, by the "Contact Us" link, or by posting over in "Community Relaunch Talkback" (the closest thing we now have to a "Suggestions" forum).

Okay? Understood? Because if you keep this up, accusing MeteorWayne of multiple bannable offenses just to score cheap points against him, without furnishing a lick of evidence, then I will be forced to take action.

I expect no further discussion of this in this thread. If you want to provide your evidence publicly, do it over in "Community Relaunch Talkback." Otherwise, you can PM me. I'm serious about wanting to see the evidence, too; if MW is doing stuff like that, I really do need to know about it, because that would not be acceptable.

*MOD HAT OFF*

 

[silylene]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

rlb2 , now that things have calmed down (hopefully!) I hope you continue to post more items on this thread, and I always read them.

I did like and appreciate the big color panorama of the crater. And please keep looking for evidence of water, or ice, or lifeforms. I know, if there is any evidence of it in the photos, that you will find it. (I do recall how you discovered the subliming ice in the trench, before anyone else saw it)


*peace*

 

[centsworth_II]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

(I do recall how you discovered the subliming ice in the trench, before anyone else saw it)

I do appreciate the effort rlb puts into his work. I don't appreciate his crowing over such efforts.

There is a big difference between seeing something and reporting it. Between the two is a whole range of investigation and analysis that can take place (or not, depending on the care one wishes to take). I can't believe I have to explain this to you. Do you really think the Phoenix scientists, after rlb's "discovery" of sublimating ice, slapped their foreheads and exclaimed, "Of course! Sublimation! Why didn't we think of that!".

rlb himself laid it out very well in a post on June 17, 2008: "Is it sublimation, dust settling, or plain old salt?"

Two days later, in a June 19 press release, the Phoenix team showed visual proof of sublimation. (I don't know when rlb made his announcement.)

 

[silylene]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

Centsworth, of course I know.

This isn't a journal publication, or even a press release. This is just a forum. The standards here are (often regretably) low: just report what you think you see. Yes, I wish standards could be higher! Often they are the best we can do with the information at hand (pictures in this case). And I really, seriously doubt that anyone on the Phoenix teams reads this forum.

But then again, rlb2 IIRC did see what appears to be subliming ice in the trench. I haven't looked back into the thread, but I some of us (myself too, IIRC) recall arguing with the interpretation of his observation.

Geesh, why does it seem I detect some hostility?

 

[rlb2]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

Just a test to see if things still work after the personal threatening letter from MeteoryWayne, I’ve been told that I will be kicked off if I discus this openly and all my previous posts erased.

MMMM let me see, I was here since 1998 if you count all the other post that were erased in all the big crashes and all the color images, over 3,000 I posted from the MER Rovers raw images I painstakingly made myself to show people here, a high percent of the color images weren’t shown anywhere else, lost in all the other big crashes, although I have all of them archived.

All the lost post and images totaled over 800,000 hits that some other people and I posted here. Loss images includes the visual evidence from the Phoenix Lander showing sublimation images I posted first here showing the ice sublimating less than a week, more than 2 days, before the Phoenix Lander team. UA even used the same side by side comparison that I did but later sol’s. It was a person in the UA image department that claimed to bring it to their attention not a bunch of PHD's in a boiler room who questioned the cause of the disappearing ice from the raw images, you had too look at it in color to tell the difference each RGB filters block some colors naturally.........

As a result with this new formatted message board if they erase all my previous post for citing MteroWayne's past behavior towards me it isn't really that much of an impressive threat.....

Thanks Silylene for your support. The only reason I come back here is to talk to my friends, you seem to be the only one left, some left, and some are hiding for fear of retribution, so I really don’t have a reason to stay, I am going to be erased anyway....

I know I must sound kind of bitter; I am, I’m usually a very humble easy-going person that respects other people’s opinion when they differ from my own. On this board lately I was forced to defend myself over and over again, as you know when a person defends themselves too much it sometimes appear to be a little arrogant or self defeating, just the thing the person who is attacking them wants it to look like.

I will be posting all my past and future Mars MER images on Google Picasso free image online service I hope to have that up and running soon. Or check out my website here:

http://shineinnovations.com/index.html

Or here where I will be reactivating an old place I use to post color MER images at the Mars Society message board with new MER rover images

http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3897

Thanks again Silylene for your support. I really do appreciate it.

Ron

 

[centsworth_II]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

This isn't a journal publication, or even a press release. This is just a forum.... rlb2 IIRC did see what appears to be subliming ice in the trench.... some of us (myself too, IIRC) recall arguing with the interpretation of his observation.

Right. This is not a journal or a press release. The rules for presenting "discoveries" here are a LOT different. That is why it really irks me to see someone claim to have beaten the scientists at their own game. The game being played here is NOT the same game!

For example:
by rlb2 » Thu May 21, 2009 7:42 pm :
"...the Phoenix Lander found some water ice sublimating and then declared that indeed water ice is on Mars, such a foolish waist of time yet when years ago people making this same argument got ridiculed. By the way the same argument I made about the Viking Lander I made over one week before the Phoenix Landing team came out with it and declared that through visual evidence of sublimation process which I also provided evidence on at Space.com blog over a week before they did, now all of a sudden we have water-ice – wow someone got the credit for listening to a person who has preached this for decades and even found it before they did at the Phoenix Landing site."

By all means, lord it over those in the forum who doubted you. But don't think you have outdone the mission scientists.

Does rlb not realize that the Phoenix scientists, from orbital data, were 99 percent sure that there was ice just beneath the surface? It was just a matter of getting irrefutable evidence -- by their standards, not this forum's standards -- before making an announcement. How does rlb imagine that the idea of ice on Mars was being ridiculed if hundreds of millions of dollars were being spent to go LOOK AT IT?!

Heaven help us if rlb's ice worms turn out to be real! We'll never hear the end of it! :lol:

 

[silylene]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

rlb2 did claim ice subliming in a trench about a week+ before anyone else I have seen. I recall being skeptical and offering other explanations, as did others. Then about a week+ later, on UMSF and then NASA, they saw ice in the scoop bucket.

I don't believe in the 'worms' as a lifeform. I think they are just soil particles for some reason moving in a curious way, which I stated when he first posted those animations. Still I am glad that rlb2 looks for these things. If anything is ever there, he'd find it.

I do think we have to cut some slack, and allow a more lax standard on these forums than we'd have in a refereed journal. And when the public members post their ideas or observations, we should discuss them in an objective and scientific and respectful manner. Yes, this means upon further consideration and disucssion and reasoning that we will be eliminating 95% of observations from the public as incorrect or misidentified, or factually wrong, or whatever. That is how a public forum board like this is! That's the fun of it. And we all learn from these discussions, and the members who post learn more too (hopefully!).

Maybe I am just getting to easy going as I get older.

 

[rlb2]

Re: Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoe

silylene

Thanks bud for you support, its time for me to go somewhere else, I’m tired of defending myself and dealing with the constant harassment.

I think MW is blocking my messages; he has been savoring this moment.

Thanks

Ron