SOHO Comets/Asteroids/Planets

MeteorWayne · Feb 8, 2009

If you look ~ 2/5 at the 8 o'clock position you can see a short lived comet/asteroid approaching the sun.http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LAT ... ent_c3.gif But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function

michaelmozina · Feb 8, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If you look ~ 2/5 at the 8 o'clock poistion you can see a short lived comet/asteroid approaching the sun.http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LATEST/current_c3.gif Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>I think I would have missed that one entirely if you had not pointed it out.  I watched that video twice today and missed it both times.  I wasn't until I saw your post that I actually noticed that one.  It burned out a quite a ways from the sun. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

3488 · Feb 9, 2009

Thanks Wayne,My guess is a small comet, but a type C or D asteroid (similar to 253 Mathilde, or the Mars moons Phobos & Deimos, or Jupiter's outermost retrograde moons) could well be rich in volatiles, so could not rule out such an asteroid. Yes the object came & was vapourized within a couple of hours after coming into view. Very quick. Once again, thanks Wayne. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 9, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks Wayne,My guess is a small comet, but a type C or D asteroid (similar to 253 Mathilde, or the Mars moons Phobos & Deimos, or Jupiter's outermost retrograde moons) could well be rich in volatiles, so could not rule out such an asteroid. Yes the object came & was vapourized within a couple of hours after coming into view. Very quick. Once again, thanks Wayne. Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV> Hi Andrew, yeah I thought about an asteroid, but dismissed it very quickly for the following reasons.Since it evaporated so quickly it must have been very close to the sun. Since it was close to the sun, it was moving VERY fast. This is a sungrazing comet type orbit.An asteroid that close to the sun would have been far too faint to be visible in the SOHO image...the dimmest objects are about magnitude +5, and asteroid of that brightness at 90 million miles away would have to be HUGE; hence it wouldn't have disappeared so quickly. Only a comet could have broduced such a bright display for such a short period of time, IMHO.Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Feb 9, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi Andrew, yeah I thought about an asteroid, but dis............Wayne Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Cheers Wayne, Just threw a bone in there.I did consider a C or D type asteroid as they are thought to be rich in volatiles, so perhaps one closely approaching the Sun may mimic a comet, but really like yourself, I do think we are seeing a small comet here.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 22, 2009

New SOHO comet inbound from the 7:30 position. It's just above the dark line (the support that holds the occultation disk) beginning on the 22nd. Looks like it will be pretty bright!http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LATEST/current_c3.gifFor comparison purposes, the star entering from the bottom left, just reappearing after passing the occulting disk support is delta AQR; magnitude +3.3.This is most likely a Kreutz group sungrazing comet.This image shows Kreutz group trajectories for February (in black). The red are comets detected by SOHO that don't belong to this group. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/10/0a954594-55d0-433f-aa41-f3a4d2963dd2.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

michaelmozina · Feb 22, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>New SOHO comet inbound from the 7:30 position. It's just above the dark line (the support that holds the occultation disk) beginning on the 22nd. Looks like it will be pretty bright!http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LATEST/current_c3.gifFor comparison purposes, the star entering from the bottome left, just reappearing after passing the occulting disk support is delta AQR; magnirude +3.3 Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Nice catch.  It's kinda fun to watch them burn up in near real time.

By any chance do you happen to know the count of comets that have been found in SOHO images now?   I lost count quite some time ago.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 22, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>By any chance do you happen to know the count of comets that have been found in SOHO images now?   I lost count quite some time ago.   Posted by michaelmozina</DIV> Current count is 1606

Not bad, 2 minutes for an answer (actually I ran across it while searching for the Feb Kreutz group map) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

michaelmozina · Feb 22, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Current count is 1606

Not bad, 2 minutes for an answer (actually I ran across it while searching for the Feb Kreutz group map) Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>I think SOHO has been one of the most efficient locator of comets of any piece of gear in space.  Unfortnately most of them are in the process of plummeting into the atmosphere of the sun, so it's not like we need to "track" many of them for very long.

Thanks for the quick response. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 24, 2009

Well, the comet lasted till 00Z Feb 23, but there was about an 8 hour data gap in the images and at 08Z it had dissapated. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 26, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well, the comet lasted till 00Z Feb 23, but there was about an 8 hour data gap in the images and at 08Z it had dissapated. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> The data gap has been restored and the comet can be tracked all the way to the occulting disk.In fact, it can even briefly be seen on the C2 movie:http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LATEST/current_c2.gif <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 28, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

Another Kreutz group comet appeared on the 26th along the same path as the last. It's dim with no tail, approaching the sun from the 7:30 position.

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LAT ... ent_c3.gif

3488 · Feb 28, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

MeteorWayne":2n50vzi7 said:
Another Kreutz group comet appeared on the 26th along the same path as the last. It's dim with no tail, approaching the sun from the 7:30 position.

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LAT ... ent_c3.gif

Hi Wayne,

My guess is that both comets are part of the same parent body, fitting in with the Kreutz model. Shame that spectra of these cannot be obtained, but I would suspect, they are all of the same type.

Andrew Brown.

yevaud · Feb 28, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

Hello, Andrew.

Btw, congratulations. As near as I can figure, the above post makes you the first poster at this new board (beating me by ten minutes).

3488 · Feb 28, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

Hi Yevaud,

I made a couple of posts yesterday too.

I like this new software very much & when the little bugs are ironed out (today is much better than yesterday) I think the Community will be rejuvenated.

It's great to be back & also great to see our best posters, like Wayne & yourself returning.

I must remember to monitor the SOHO site myself. I keep forgetting about it.

Andrew Brown.

MeteorWayne · Feb 28, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

3488 said:
Hi Wayne,

My guess is that both comets are part of the same parent body, fitting in with the Kreutz model. Shame that spectra of these cannot be obtained, but I would suspect, they are all of the same type.

Andrew Brown.

Hmm, this post got lost the first time.

Yes they are all part of the same cometary parent, a large comet in a long period orbit that broke up upun a close approach to the sun between 10 and 20 thousand years ago.

michaelmozina · Mar 6, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

MeteorWayne":374ftp61 said:
Another Kreutz group comet appeared on the 26th along the same path as the last. It's dim with no tail, approaching the sun from the 7:30 position.

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LAT ... ent_c3.gif

I'm curious about your thoughts on the composition of those two comets Wayne. It seemed to me that the first one appeared to burn "brighter" whereas the second one seemed "dimmer", but more persistent (got close to the sun) to me. I'm not sure if the images were calibrated, so I'm not sure that the bright/dim argument applies here. My impression however is that the second one could have been "heavier" and more dense, whereas the first one seemed to be lighter in composition, and to burn away before getting very close to the photosphere. It seemed to me that the breakup of the Shoemaker-Levy comet just before impact also lends support to the idea that comets break apart of flow as a group, perhaps even mass separated as they break apart? I'm curious about your thoughts on that idea.

MeteorWayne · Mar 6, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

michaelmozina":339nu9qw said:
MeteorWayne":339nu9qw said:

Another Kreutz group comet appeared on the 26th along the same path as the last. It's dim with no tail, approaching the sun from the 7:30 position.

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LAT ... ent_c3.gif

Click to expand...

I'm curious about your thoughts on the composition of those two comets Wayne. It seemed to me that the first one appeared to burn "brighter" whereas the second one seemed "dimmer", but more persistent (got close to the sun) to me. I'm not sure if the images were calibrated, so I'm not sure that the bright/dim argument applies here. My impression however is that the second one could have been "heavier" and more dense, whereas the first one seemed to be lighter in composition, and to burn away before getting very close to the photosphere. It seemed to me that the breakup of the Shoemaker-Levy comet just before impact also lends support to the idea that comets break apart of flow as a group, perhaps even mass separated as they break apart? I'm curious about your thoughts on that idea.

Good questions michael.
First, it is possible that the brightness was calibrAted differently at the two times. From conversations with the SOHO team, about once a week they do a kind of flat field to set the base level for the week. So it is possible the second one was dimmer than the first. I don't recall when the reset was done; I'll have to make a note of that in the future. It did however seeem clear to me that the first one had a much longer tail, the second had almost none.
However, the second did not get as close to the sun as the first...the first made it all the way into the C3 Field of View, wheras the second disappated before making it that far.

As for the composition of the pieces, these are all parts of one ~ 120 km sized comet that broke up 10 or 20 thousand years ago. It seems logical that different pieces would have somewhat differing amounts of rock and ice. SOHO has spotted around a thousand of the descendeants so far. A very few (Ikeya Seki) have been large enough to become visible comets. So depending on the size of the piece (most seen by SOHO are only 15-130 meters) the generated tail could be quite different in composition and reflectivity.

Hope that helps!
MW

michaelmozina · Mar 6, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

MeteorWayne":55jb7rj0 said:
Good questions michael.
First, it is possible that the brightness was calibrAted differently at the two times. From conversations with the SOHO team, about once a week they do a kind of flat field to set the base level for the week. So it is possible the second one was dimmer than the first. I don't recall when the reset was done; I'll have to make a note of that in the future.

I hear you on this point about brightness and calibration. If you do come across some additional information on this point, I would be curious.

It did however seeem clear to me that the first one had a much longer tail, the second had almost none.

That was also my impression. It also seemed as though the first one grew bright rather quickly as it entered the solar atmosphere, whereas the second one seemed to take a while to grow in intensity.

However, the second did not get as close to the sun as the first...the first made it all the way into the C3 Field of View, wheras the second disappated before making it that far.

I haven't checked that part out yet. That is interesting to note.

As for the composition of the pieces, these are all parts of one ~ 120 km sized comet that broke up 10 or 20 thousand years ago. It seems logical that different pieces would have somewhat differing amounts of rock and ice. SOHO has spotted around a thousand of the descendeants so far. A very few (Ikeya Seki) have been large enough to become visible comets. So depending on the size of the piece (most seen by SOHO are only 15-130 meters) the generated tail could be quite different in composition and reflectivity.

Hope that helps!
MW

It does help, and thanks for the input. I think that article you posted a few weeks about about the comets traveling as a "group" was excellent, especially after watching two comets track into the sun along the same path a week or so later. The comet activity we saw in SOHO a week or so later really lent a lot of support to that paper IMO.

MeteorWayne · Mar 6, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

In fact about 60-70% of the comets seen by SOHO (that's off the top of my head, I'll have to check actual figures a bit later) are all Kreutz group comets from that sam progentor many milennia ago.

MeteorWayne · May 18, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

The Plieades will be passing just above the sun over the next few days.

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime/c3/512/

33MB Animation:

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/LAT ... ent_c3.gif

MeteorWayne · Sep 21, 2009

Re: SOHO Comet/Asteroids

OK, OK, it's not comets, but there are two "wanderers" in the current SOHO loop:

http://soho.esac.esa.int/data/LATEST/current_c3.gif

The brightest object above the sun, moving from left to right at just about the same speed as the stars is Saturn at magnitude +1.1.

To the lower left of the sun, moving left to right faster than the stars is Mercury at magnitude +4.7, passing through superior conjunction (behind the sun). We're about 8 days from the next MESSENGER close approach to Mercury; the last before orbital insertion in 2011. See the MESSENGER thread in Missions and Launches.

Note the loop is a bit out of date; they are having power work done at the earth facilities this past and next weekend so there will be some gaps.

In actuality, Mercury actually passed below the sun yesterday...there may a big jump when the loop gets updated, or they may fill in the missing time.

MW

MeteorWayne · Dec 10, 2009

Venus has now entered the LASCO C3 field of view as it passes from right to left as Venus passes behind the sun, reaching superior conjunction Jan 11th.

MeteorWayne · Dec 17, 2009

Couldn't resist posting this now that the SOHO movies are up to date again.

http://soho.esac.esa.int/data/LATEST/current_c3.gif

Venus is moving from right to left, completely swamping the detectors, while approaching from the lower left toward the lower right, the "cloud" is the center of the Milky Way. What a beautiful image, IMHO.

MW

MeteorWayne · Jan 2, 2010

It's been a long time since we've seen a sun grazing comet in the SOHO C3 imagry, but one is on the way in, appearing here from the lower left heading toward the sun.

http://soho.esac.esa.int/data/LATEST/current_c3.gif

Meanwhile, Venus is approaching Superior conjunction, about to pass behind the sun. The long lines from the very bright planet are caused by far too many photons hitting the detectors, so they spill over into horizontal lines where the extra signal winds up.

Also, there is a large sunspot group visible:

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/rea ... i_igr/512/

SOHO, we love you!!

MW

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