Solar System Mining

[magnets]

Is there anything in the solar system (off-Earth) with value sufficient to warrant mining?

Are there large valuable objects in the Kuiper belt? Could they be redirected to Mars and subsequently mined for valuables? (Crashing into Mars would be OK. Crashing into Earth - not a good idea.)

Perhaps after a few million years of such "crash-mining" perhaps Mars itself would be bigger, retain more atmosphere and be more valuable.

 

[bdewoody]

Well you were giving it a long time but if we establish colonies on Mars I doubt that we would want to crash asteroids or comets of significant size into it. We would have to start over after every crash. Besides as has been mentioned the energy needed to redirect an asteroid or comet of significant size is well beyond any rocket motor we will be building in the forseeable future. More likely ore will be mined in more traditional ways and brought to where it will be processed in space barges. I envision manufacturing complexes in space where large exploratory space vehicles will be fabricated instead of building on earth and then launched from the ground. This is most likely a long way off but in my opinion it's the only way to build large space vehicles.

 

[andrew_t1000]

If you were going to go to all the effort of mining asteroids, it would be silly to NOT refine and process in orbit, L5 or where ever.
If we got our heavy industries off world it would be great for our environment.
One thing about mining asteroids and processing ore to finished product, by this I mean rolling and extrusion mills, is it would make a better product, cheaper.
One of Arthur C. Clarkes ideas, using big parabolic mirrors to generate power, liquid sodium as the heat transfer medium, makes a lot of sense.
Just think, all of our friends that are way too snobby with their over priced mountain bikes would be less smug if we could get the price of chrome molly steel down!

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Not too long ago I estimated the price of material mined on the Moon & returned to Earth at around $6000 per gram. :shock:
Much work has to be done to create an infrastructure in LEO before any economic activity takes place anywhere off the surface of the Earth.
I very seriously doubt anything will happen in the economic arena before there is an off world colony. The transportation needs of such a colony would go a long way toward driving down launch costs & building that infrastructure.

 

[bdewoody]

Boris my statements were based on just such a situation being in place. As long as we remain confined to staying at home or even in LEO there is nothing out there worth bringing back to use on earth.

 

[Woggles]

Is there anything in the solar system (off-Earth) with value sufficient to warrant mining?

Are there large valuable objects in the Kuiper belt? Could they be redirected to Mars and subsequently mined for valuables? (Crashing into Mars would be OK. Crashing into Earth - not a good idea.)

Perhaps after a few million years of such "crash-mining" perhaps Mars itself would be bigger, retain more atmosphere and be more valuable.

Sure there is! Everything we mine here is out there and maybe even other materials we hadn't even think of, or created.

Maybe one day this will happen. This would require a national and multinational focus on that being a goal. Look around today and we human aren't even close to having that kind of unity. However I believe we could one day do this. Perhaps that day will come once we can establish mutigenerational colony on mars or another solar system body. And mostly like that will only happen once we determine planet earth cannot sustain life any longer.

 

[MeteorWayne]

This would probably be better off in Space Business and Technology, where there are already a number of threads discussing space mining. I'l probably move it there later today, then merge it into one of the existing threads tomorrow.

 

[bearack]

There are already plans to mine H3 from the moon. Granted, before any such mining will even begin, we need the ability to turn it into useable energy on Earth because of right now, the cost are just astronomical and not practical.

 

[neilsox]

One reason factories are located in or near big cities is the bosses think of something they need every few minutes, an employee goes to fetch it and/or a vendor delivers it. This is more difficult on a small asteroid. Of course, bosses will learn to plan ahead better, so this happens less often, but still last minute procurement is a costly problem, especially if the widget you need is available, no closer than an AU and a deep gravity well. Keeping an inventory of everything you think you might need is also very costly as you never need quite a few of the widgets. When was the last time someone needed a rotary spark gap, or a selenium rectifier? This and other minor technicalities make asteroid mining more costly than it first appears. Yes the thousandth asteroid mined, will go much smoother than most of the first 999 unless that asteroid is unique. Unfortunately many of the asteroids have unique problems for the miners and refiners, especially if you go very high tech to reduce the people payroll. and overhead. I think you can see, that an enormous investment up front is needed if the 1001st asteroid is the first one that produces a profit.
On Earth peak oil has occurred, or will soon, but that does not mean no oil. In a thousand years we will still produce some oil, but it will cost about the same as mercury, the liquid metal which has rapidly decreasing applications in real life, partly because a cheaper substitute is available in most situations. You notice that we get by without whale oil almost always, as we have found cheaper substitutes for nearly all applications of whale oil.
That is not to say, we will never mine asteroids, but it will likely be rare before 2099. Neil

 

[bdewoody]

One idea I've seen on the Science channel for terra forming Mars involves redirecting comets toward the inner solar system to crash into the polar regions of Mars, thereby releasing O2 and water into the atmosphere. I actually watched an episode of Star Trek Enterprise (one of the last ones) where they mentioned doing exactly the same thing.

 

[neilsox]

Neither Mars nor the comet are likely to have significant free O = oxygen, but a tiny amount is produced in the plasma that is produced by the impact on the surface of Mars. Mostly carbon dioxide and water vapor is released, but the atmosphere of Mars already has about 5 times the carbon dioxide of Earth's atmosphere. Neil

 

[dragon04]

We have no practical means by which to de-orbit industrial amounts of such raw and/or refined materials, so until industrial scale consumption is achieved in space, it's unlikely that any form of asteroid mining will occur.

I'd say that within a century or two, we'll see the establishment of such infrastructure in space, but there is no catalyst or urgency as of this time that warrants such a massive expenditure of remaining Earth resources to make it happen. When you think about it, it's an overwhelming proposition.

 

[Tritium]

The answer is yes,there will be mining throughout the Solar System.But it will be a very gradual process which will unfold slowly as we establish ourselves in lunar bases and Martian colonies,and as our technology develops.We will start drilling and digging very quickly on the lunar surface after we set up shop there.Water will be extracted to do 3 things,make potable water for lunar base inhabitants,make rocket fuel,and to make concrete for building construction on the lunar surface.The Martian colonies will do much the same at first,and will progress to other mining endeavors as geological surveys find ore and mineral deposits there.

Eventually,we will expand to the moons of Saturn and Jupiter and repeat the same process as we build bases and colonies.As far as returning industrial quantities of ores and minerals to the Earth,we will need to develop technology which permits large,heavy re-entry vehicles to get through Earth atmosphere without burning up,or develop large scale transporters similar to those in Star Trek.

It seems more likely that mining operations throughout the Solar System will be used on each planet,moon,or asteroid we establish ourselves upon,to build and develop each site,using the ores and minerals and resources available.The mind leaps to imagine the various mining equipment which will be developed to harvest those resources.

It will happen.If we could stop spending the lion's share of the world's monetary resources on wars and weapons of war,we could get those bases and colonies established much sooner.But we are unfortunately still very primitive as a species,and more than half of us are still behaving in an un-evolved,dysfunctional,territorial,delusional manner.There is no way to predict when we will finally cooperate and work together for the common good of all humankind,and to preserve the Earth's resources and ecosystems for the benefit of our descendants,but,once we do,we will be able to accomplish the colonization of our Solar System.Eventually we will reach into our galaxy,and given enough time,possibly into many other galaxies.And we will perform mining operations on all of the worlds we inhabit.The real question is, when...?

 

[Mobiusfiftyseven]

There is ALOT and i mean ALOT of resource and real estate out there. Its only a matter of time guys.

 

[Couerl]

Well,.. I wonder sometimes how much of all this is fantasy and how much is reality and while everyone I know wants to go jetting around the asteroid belt in big huge spaceships and "mining" them and whatever else, I still don't know which element the Earth is going to run out of first? Iron maybe? :lol:

 

[bdewoody]

It's not so much running out, since iron is one of the major elements found on earth, as it is what we have to tear up to get at it. Even so space mining won't be about what can be delivered back down here on the ground but rather what can be manufactured in space for use in space.

 

[SpaceTas]

The original poster hit the nail on the head

Is there anything in the solar system (off-Earth) with value sufficient to warrant mining?

This is the central question for establishing any long term presence in space. This includes a Martian colony; it has to be able to export something to pay back the set-up and running costs.

Possibilities:

He3 from the Moon is/was thought to possibly viable lunar export. It is widespread on the Moon, very rare on Earth (the USA is running low on normal Helium, and it has the largest reserves), will become vital for fusion reactors. A downside is it's low density meaning large space craft and it leaks slowly through solid steal .... (Compressing it doesn't help because of the mass of the container goes up, and it is very difficult to liquify).

Energy beamed to the ground. The idea here was that mining the moon and having a permanent space workforce would be the cheapest way of building the solar power stations. The price of clean power would be high enough to pay for it all.

There are several important materials that are "running out" e.g. Platinum, Indium .... see the New Scientist article "Earth's natural wealth: an audit". I found it by going to their web site and searching with "minerals running out".

But:
Like other rare material, as the price goes up new sources are found, recycling starts, alternatives sort. For space mining to be viable then it must become less expensive more practicable than all the earth based alternatives.

Will any of these be valuable enough ????

The product may not be obvious e.g. Tobacco (Virginia etc) and Wool (Australia and New Zealand)

 

[Tritium]

The original poster hit the nail on the head

Is there anything in the solar system (off-Earth) with value sufficient to warrant mining?

This is the central question for establishing any long term presence in space. This includes a Martian colony; it has to be able to export something to pay back the set-up and running costs.

Possibilities:

He3 from the Moon is/was thought to possibly viable lunar export. It is widespread on the Moon, very rare on Earth (the USA is running low on normal Helium, and it has the largest reserves), will become vital for fusion reactors. A downside is it's low density meaning large space craft and it leaks slowly through solid steal .... (Compressing it doesn't help because of the mass of the container goes up, and it is very difficult to liquify).

Energy beamed to the ground. The idea here was that mining the moon and having a permanent space workforce would be the cheapest way of building the solar power stations. The price of clean power would be high enough to pay for it all.

The establishment of our species on a lunar colony,and a Martian colony would be worth the expense as an insurance policy for the survival and continuance of the species.The mining processes developed by those colonies,and the food production would eventually lead to self-sufficiency,which would reduce or eliminate "running costs".There would eventually be methods of transporting and delivering products to and from the colonies which would become extremely lucrative,stimulating investments,and creating vast wealth throughout our solar system.We have to get people to think not only globally,but to envision humanity expanding to all of the habitable sites in our solar system.To do this,we have to abolish war,and redistribute the funds into peaceful,mutually beneficial projects.I say that we begin now.that we each do as much as we can to push the pendulum in the direction it needs to go in order to accomplish this great agenda.

There are several important materials that are "running out" e.g. Platinum, Indium .... see the New Scientist article "Earth's natural wealth: an audit". I found it by going to their web site and searching with "minerals running out".

But:
Like other rare material, as the price goes up new sources are found, recycling starts, alternatives sort. For space mining to be viable then it must become less expensive more practicable than all the earth based alternatives.

Will any of these be valuable enough ????

The product may not be obvious e.g. Tobacco (Virginia etc) and Wool (Australia and New Zealand)

 

[BenS1985]

The question comes down to 2 areas:

1) Are there any minerals that can be mined viably and returned to Earth for usage on the planet?
2) Are there minerals that can be mined and turned into viable products in-situ?

For #1 we know for certain that the moon and the outer gas giants (Uranus, Neptune) have huge troves of Helium 3 which may be used for fusion reactors in 20-50 years which could power the earth both cleanly and at an affordable price, even given the constraints on acquiring it. Also, there are many rare earths that are running out, or are owned by very specific countries that are beginning to place restrictions on exportation (such as China). Since the Earth is made out of similar materials as are other objects in the solar system, its only logical to believe that asteroids may hold very important elements we need for things such as solar panels and computer chips. Also, we could possibly assume that other elements may exist that we simply don't know about.

For #2, it is an absolute necessity. Due to costs of launching media into orbit, the cost of building ship components in-situ using resources like titanium from the moon is most likely going to be more cost effective than mining it from the earth and then building and launching here. So from that aspect, there is a huge need for utilizing off-world material.

Finally, space itself has many industrial advantages outside of simple minerals. Products such as metal foam are very expensive to make on earth, whereas they are rather cheap when manufactured in space. Such industries could be very large in the future, once we can reduce the cost of putting equipment in orbit.

Much of the process really comes down to R&D and cost. As we reduce the costs of launching material into orbit, we will invariably invent new needs and opportunities for space-based industries and services. There will be many things we cannot think of that can be provided by industry outside of earth. It will just take smart men and wealthy people to pool resources together to ensure it all becomes a reality.

 

[Tritium]

Well,.. I wonder sometimes how much of all this is fantasy and how much is reality and while everyone I know wants to go jetting around the asteroid belt in big huge spaceships and "mining" them and whatever else, I still don't know which element the Earth is going to run out of first? Iron maybe? :lol:

We keep missing the idea of using the stuff we mine in space to build the stuff we need in space.Sure,if we figure out a way to bring materials back to our beautiful Earth,we surely will.But I think the most efficient and practical use will be to mine and process in zero gravity,and produce materials which can be used on site for the construction of colony structures,and for the production of new spacecraft,in space.

 

[Couerl]

Well,.. I wonder sometimes how much of all this is fantasy and how much is reality and while everyone I know wants to go jetting around the asteroid belt in big huge spaceships and "mining" them and whatever else, I still don't know which element the Earth is going to run out of first? Iron maybe? :lol:

We keep missing the idea of using the stuff we mine in space to build the stuff we need in space.Sure,if we figure out a way to bring materials back to our beautiful Earth,we surely will.But I think the most efficient and practical use will be to mine and process in zero gravity,and produce materials which can be used on site for the construction of colony structures,and for the production of new spacecraft,in space.

Well that's exactly my point.. What pray tell do we "need" in space? We all want to go gallavanting around mining asteroids and colonizing Mars and the moon and whatnot, but why exactly when we already live on the biggest asteroid on the block?

 

[Tritium]

Once again.When we land on the moon,it will be at the place on the pole where we have seen evidence of water-ice.We will begin to "mine" this water-ice from the surface to extract drinking water,oxygen,and hydrogen,and Helium.
Giant greenhouses will produce food in the form of plants.

We will build very large ships in space at a Lagrange point between the Earth and the Moon.Mars will be established as a colony,and we will continue to try to dictate our authority.(Does this mean we are doomed?) :?:

 

[bdewoody]

Once again.When we land on the moon,it will be at the place on the pole where we have seen evidence of water-ice.We will begin to "mine" this water-ice from the surface to extract drinking water,oxygen,and hydrogen,and Helium.
Giant greenhouses will produce food in the form of plants.

We will build very large ships in space at a Lagrange point between the Earth and the Moon.Mars will be established as a colony,and we will continue to try to dictate our authority.(Does this mean we are doomed?) :?:

But not in our lifetimes I'm afraid.

 

[Tritium]

Well,.. I wonder sometimes how much of all this is fantasy and how much is reality and while everyone I know wants to go jetting around the asteroid belt in big huge spaceships and "mining" them and whatever else, I still don't know which element the Earth is going to run out of first? Iron maybe? :lol:

We keep missing the idea of using the stuff we mine in space to build the stuff we need in space.Sure,if we figure out a way to bring materials back to our beautiful Earth,we surely will.But I think the most efficient and practical use will be to mine and process in zero gravity,and produce materials which can be used on site for the construction of colony structures,and for the production of new spacecraft,in space.

Well that's exactly my point.. What pray tell do we "need" in space? We all want to go gallavanting around mining asteroids and colonizing Mars and the moon and whatnot, but why exactly when we already live on the biggest asteroid on the block?

Continuation of our species.To establish ourselves on other points throughout the solar system,so that if an event were to occur on the Earth which caused mass extinction of our species there,we would still have self sustaining colonies on the moon and on Mars.And once the dust cleared,or the radioactivity levels decreased to healthy levels,we could return to our home planet,and still maintain our outposts in space.Think of it like a giant insurance policy for all of mankind.

And,the Earth has dwindling resources,we have a population which is out of control,and needs more acreage to grow.Also,there is no telling how much we will benefit in ways unknown from our digging and mining elsewhere in our solar system.There may well be deposits of new ores and elements as yet unknown to us,which may be extremely useful in products that humans can use on Earth,hence,monetary gain,possible medical gain,guaranteed technological gains.

We MUST look forward to the future.We cannot continue with the status-quo.Mining will take place as part of our natural expansion into our solar system.I believe that we will eventually travel to nearby solar systems,where,once again,we will apply our mining technologies to help us utilize existing materials and resources to establish our colonies there.It is no different than what happened during the colonization of the western hemisphere in Earth's history books.

 

[Couerl]

Continuation of our species.To establish ourselves on other points throughout the solar system,so that if an event were to occur on the Earth which caused mass extinction of our species there,we would still have self sustaining colonies on the moon and on Mars.And once the dust cleared,or the radioactivity levels decreased to healthy levels,we could return to our home planet,and still maintain our outposts in space.Think of it like a giant insurance policy for all of mankind.

And,the Earth has dwindling resources,we have a population which is out of control,and needs more acreage to grow.Also,there is no telling how much we will benefit in ways unknown from our digging and mining elsewhere in our solar system.There may well be deposits of new ores and elements as yet unknown to us,which may be extremely useful in products that humans can use on Earth,hence,monetary gain,possible medical gain,guaranteed technological gains.

We MUST look forward to the future.We cannot continue with the status-quo.Mining will take place as part of our natural expansion into our solar system.I believe that we will eventually travel to nearby solar systems,where,once again,we will apply our mining technologies to help us utilize existing materials and resources to establish our colonies there.It is no different than what happened during the colonization of the western hemisphere in Earth's history books.

Hi, that's all good and fine but, I don't trust insurance policies much and I beg to differ, but it is A LOT different than sailing the mayflower across one hemisphere to another.. Don't get me wrong either, I want to go out and conquer the universe as much as the next guy, but we're playing mind games with all this insurance policy nonsense and as far as mining goes, we've barely scratched the surface right here for most of what we need. The entire asteroid belt amounts to less than a small moon as far as material quantity is concerned (at least that is my understanding) and larger populations will mean that whatever is mined elsewhere will be needed and used elsewhere and do us little good here.

That all said, who's to say if we don't build a city on Mars or whatever (the "insurance" policy) they'll do exactly as you say and nuke us and wait for the dust to settle? :lol:

We have a long ways to go with robotics and computing and statistically speaking, we are in little danger from the big one taking us out any time in the near future. I hope we focus on what we can do now and enjoy it and then worry about what we can't do later..