Solar System Mining

[Tritium]

Continuation of our species.To establish ourselves on other points throughout the solar system,so that if an event were to occur on the Earth which caused mass extinction of our species there,we would still have self sustaining colonies on the moon and on Mars.And once the dust cleared,or the radioactivity levels decreased to healthy levels,we could return to our home planet,and still maintain our outposts in space.Think of it like a giant insurance policy for all of mankind.

And,the Earth has dwindling resources,we have a population which is out of control,and needs more acreage to grow.Also,there is no telling how much we will benefit in ways unknown from our digging and mining elsewhere in our solar system.There may well be deposits of new ores and elements as yet unknown to us,which may be extremely useful in products that humans can use on Earth,hence,monetary gain,possible medical gain,guaranteed technological gains.

We MUST look forward to the future.We cannot continue with the status-quo.Mining will take place as part of our natural expansion into our solar system.I believe that we will eventually travel to nearby solar systems,where,once again,we will apply our mining technologies to help us utilize existing materials and resources to establish our colonies there.It is no different than what happened during the colonization of the western hemisphere in Earth's history books.

Hi, that's all good and fine but, I don't trust insurance policies much and I beg to differ, but it is A LOT different than sailing the mayflower across one hemisphere to another.. Don't get me wrong either, I want to go out and conquer the universe as much as the next guy, but we're playing mind games with all this insurance policy nonsense and as far as mining goes, we've barely scratched the surface right here for most of what we need. The entire asteroid belt amounts to less than a small moon as far as material quantity is concerned (at least that is my understanding) and larger populations will mean that whatever is mined elsewhere will be needed and used elsewhere and do us little good here.

That all said, who's to say if we don't build a city on Mars or whatever they'll do exactly as you say and nuke us and wait for the dust to settle? :lol:

We have a long ways to go with robotics and computing and statistically speaking, we are in little danger from the big one taking us out any time in the near future. I hope we focus on what we can do now and enjoy it and then worry about what we can't do later..

If we wait,it could be too late.We have to act now,for the future.You keep assuming that we are going out to an asteroid to mine it and bring materials back to Earth.The whole idea is to get people into colonies on the moon and on Mars.The reason to do this is because there are many various ways in which we might cease to exist if we do not "save" our species on the moon and on Mars.Mining on both bodies of our solar system allows for the colony to be self sufficient.You use a computer to view this site.Think of our establishing space colonies as a "back-up disc"or a storage devise which allows you to retrieve vital information you may have lost in a cataclysmic failure of your computer.A Lunar and Martian Colony would serve the same purpose.

 

[Couerl]

If we wait,it could be too late.We have to act now,for the future.You keep assuming that we are going out to an asteroid to mine it and bring materials back to Earth.The whole idea is to get people into colonies on the moon and on Mars.The reason to do this is because there are many various ways in which we might cease to exist if we do not "save" our species on the moon and on Mars.Mining on both bodies of our solar system allows for the colony to be self sufficient.You use a computer to view this site.Think of our establishing space colonies as a "back-up disc"or a storage devise which allows you to retrieve vital information you may have lost in a cataclysmic failure of your computer.A Lunar and Martian Colony would serve the same purpose.

Hi, I'm not assuming anything of the sort and I'm not making silly analogies based upon paranoia either. :lol:
99.999% of everything that has ever lived is now extinct and maybe it's just natural that we go extinct too to prevent our great, great, great grandkids from being bored to death.

 

[Tritium]

If we wait,it could be too late.We have to act now,for the future.You keep assuming that we are going out to an asteroid to mine it and bring materials back to Earth.The whole idea is to get people into colonies on the moon and on Mars.The reason to do this is because there are many various ways in which we might cease to exist if we do not "save" our species on the moon and on Mars.Mining on both bodies of our solar system allows for the colony to be self sufficient.You use a computer to view this site.Think of our establishing space colonies as a "back-up disc"or a storage devise which allows you to retrieve vital information you may have lost in a cataclysmic failure of your computer.A Lunar and Martian Colony would serve the same purpose.

Hi, I'm not assuming anything of the sort and I'm not making silly analogies based upon paranoia either. :lol:
99.999% of everything that has ever lived is now extinct and maybe it's just natural that we go extinct too to prevent our great, great, great grandkids from being bored to death.

Maybe it's "natural" for us to have developed science and technology to help us preserve our species.

Just as a skunk developed it's scent glands as a defense against it's own extinction,so we perhaps developed our minds to the point that we are able to disperse our "seed" to other points in our solar system,so that if a huge asteroid or comet were to collide with our planet,there would be human beings elsewhere,which could perpetuate our species,and jump-start our Earth again,with a new human population.

 

[Couerl]

Maybe it's "natural" for us to have developed science and technology to help us preserve our species.

Just as a skunk developed it's scent glands as a defense against it's own extinction,so we perhaps developed our minds to the point that we are able to disperse our "seed" to other points in our solar system,so that if a huge asteroid or comet were to collide with our planet,there would be human beings elsewhere,which could perpetuate our species,and jump-start our Earth again,with a new human population.

Sure, I agree,.. I just don't agree for the same reasons and asteroids are statistically much less likely to take us out than plenty of other things I can think of and probably can't think of for that matter. To make a case for colonization and permanant presence we need to dispel with analogies like species insurance or whatever and come to the realization that we should do it because we can. That's good enough for me! When that day happens I'll be the first to jump onboard.

 

[Tritium]

Sometimes this gets to be very exhausting.I am an old man,trying to tell the young minds out there that there is a reason and a value to continue to push hard to get our species onto some other rocks out there,just in case something happens on this one.Post after post,followed by some arguments which seem to make no sense,and just seem to be there for the sake of argument.

read my other posts on this.I am sad and old,and I just don't have any fight left in me.

 

[Couerl]

Ya friend, I can relate..

 

[Woggles]

Ya Tritium I can relate too. !!

 

[Tritium]

Today however is a brand new day!

And I'm going to say again that humanity needs to stop fighting one another,and pool our resources,and establish a Lunar,and Martian Colony as soon as possible,because we can.And because it will insure our continued existence throughout time in the universe.That solar system mining will be used mainly to support the colonies on each solar system body.But there will also be new spin-off technologies and products,as well as new periodic table elements(possibly)derived from our push into our solar system.

I am a veteran.I am sick of seeing blown up,disabled vets wandering down the halls of the VA hospitals because they answered the call to fight for freedom,justice,and the American way.I want the world to stop fighting.I want the United States of America to become the United States of the World.Or,The United Earth,or whatever.To take control and establish worldwide peace for as long as we can hold onto it!Giving humanity time to accomplish higher levels ,one of which would obviously be the establishment of human colonies on the Moon,and upon Mars,which were self sufficient.

 

[MrUniverse]

The entire asteroid belt amounts to less than a small moon as far as material quantity is concerned (at least that is my understanding)

The asteroids are in bite-sized morsels convenient for mining. Also, there are some metals that are accessible in asteroids, but are not abundant in the Earth's upper crust, which is all we can mine on the Earth.

I happen to believe that life is the most valuable thing known to man. If we could create a biosphere on Mars, then wouldn't that be it's own reward? Imagine our solar system filled with life. Pretty wonderful in my opinion. Now imagine that times a hundred billion. Not only would could our culture, science, and art multiply, but speciation would as well.

I don't think that travel between the stars will ever be routine in the sense that just anyone could hop on a star ship and blast off to Aldebaran. Therefore, the gene pools of those billions of star systems might become, for all practical purposes, cut off from one another. That is the kind of situation where one species becomes two, or in this case possibly billions. Instead of taking another step in our adaption to the cosmos, humanity would take a huge number of steps in many different directions. This may strike you as a bad thing, out of one race, many; many that could be evil and cruel to each other. But I have an enormous amount of hope for us.

Often people opine about what it would be like if we met peaceful aliens, all the stuff we could learn from them, and their differing points of view. If we make contact, that would be great, but if they ain't there, we might have to become the aliens.

A still more glorious dawn awaits; not a sunrise, but a galaxy-rise; a morning filled with 400,000,000,000 Suns; the rising of the Milky Way. -Carl Sagan

 

[Tritium]

The entire asteroid belt amounts to less than a small moon as far as material quantity is concerned (at least that is my understanding)

The asteroids are in bite-sized morsels convenient for mining. Also, there are some metals that are accessible in asteroids, but are not abundant in the Earth's upper crust, which is all we can mine on the Earth.

I happen to believe that life is the most valuable thing known to man. If we could create a biosphere on Mars, then wouldn't that be it's own reward? Imagine our solar system filled with life. Pretty wonderful in my opinion. Now imagine that times a hundred billion. Not only would could our culture, science, and art multiply, but speciation would as well.

I don't think that travel between the stars will ever be routine in the sense that just anyone could hop on a star ship and blast off to Aldebaran. Therefore, the gene pools of those billions of star systems might become, for all practical purposes, cut off from one another. That is the kind of situation where one species becomes two, or in this case possibly billions. Instead of taking another step in our adaption to the cosmos, humanity would take a huge number of steps in many different directions. This may strike you as a bad thing, out of one race, many; many that could be evil and cruel to each other. But I have an enormous amount of hope for us.

Often people opine about what it would be like if we met peaceful aliens, all the stuff we could learn from them, and their differing points of view. If we make contact, that would be great, but if they ain't there, we might have to become the aliens.

A still more glorious dawn awaits; not a sunrise, but a galaxy-rise; a morning filled with 400,000,000,000 Suns; the rising of the Milky Way. -Carl Sagan

We will use the resources of the Moon and of Mars to build the outposts,which will eventually become colonies.When I say we we will "use the resources"I am saying we will drill,and we will mine,and we will process the water,ore,and dust to their fullest capacity to build the structures and provide the needs of those facilities to the maximum on each outpost,or base,or colony which gets started out there eventually.At first,materials harvested in space will be processed,and used in space.Eventually,products will begin to return to Earth for use and economic growth here,but it will not be the initial use or goal of solar system mining operations.

 

[halman]

Probably, what I have to say is going to upset some people, but I believe that the issues are important enough to warrant that. Treating space exploration as a romantic adventure to spread the human race out enough to survive some catastrophe is probably the most common reason people give for continuing space exploration. Unfortunately, that is also the reason that investment in space exploration has been so meager. Right now, in the world there is about 6 trillion dollars invested in various equity markets, bonds, and other financial instruments, as the wealthy try to acquire more wealth.

Yet, the potential exists in space for the creation of more wealth than has been generated in all of human history. At the same time, we have an opportunity to protect the only place in all that we can see where we can walk unprotected under the open sky. Space mining will play a central part in this new industrial revolution, as raw materials are harvested from the Moon, Near Earth Objects, the asteroid belt, and the planets and their moons. Initially, the products made in space will be used exclusively on Earth, because that is where the market for those products exists. Gradually, we will see finished products being used in the construction of vehicles in space, habitats, and ground transportation systems.

Practically every calculation of the costs of operations in space are based upon the staggering cost of putting humans into Low Earth Orbit, because, once we are there, the costs to travel to other places is quite low. The most difficult part about operations in space is in getting into space, the initial acceleration to 5 miles per second. Until we develop a better method of reaching space, progress is going to be agonizingly slow. Not only are the methods we are using primitive, but they are not able to put large numbers of people in space at one time.

Once we break through this technological barrier, things will change drastically. The private sector will be more willing to invest in space stations, mining, and processing of materials in space. This can be further encouraged by penalizing environmentally damaging practices on Earth, pushing up the cost of extracting ore, smelting it down, and making finished goods out of the resulting materials. These costs are already escalating, as humans claim for their own every square inch of land and sea bottom, energy prices rise, and pollution controls are imposed.

Advocating space exploration for the purpose of colonization tells investors that they can expect little in the way of returns for substantial periods of time, as the colonies mature until they become self-sufficient, and finally begin exporting goods. But emphasizing the commercial aspects of space exploration, the ability to create products which are impossible to make on Earth, yet which will have high value, this promotes investment with the expectation of a return in the fairly near future.

Greed is one of the most powerful motivating forces known to Man, far outstripping love, fear, and charity. If we can manipulate the greed of the wealthy investor, we can get the funding to create the infrastructure needed to make colonization a feasible, affordable option. But first, we need a cheap and easy way into space.

 

[rockett]

Thank you halman. Another realist is nice to find.

I have grown up with the space program from the time I was a child and watched, hoping for all the dreams to come true. Time and again I have been disappointed, because we never stayed. A short list: Apollo, Sky Lab, and now ISS.

Over the years, I've come realize a lot of the same things you have. Sad to say, you are right about greed, and the commercial world. I still hold on to the dream, but until we overcome the things you point out, we will never have a sustainable prescence in space.

"Boots and flags" do mare harm than good to the space program. They drain resources better spent elsewhere in the effort. The don't commit us to ANY long term strategy, and they leave us with no sustainable infrastructure.

 

[DarkenedOne]

Probably, what I have to say is going to upset some people, but I believe that the issues are important enough to warrant that. Treating space exploration as a romantic adventure to spread the human race out enough to survive some catastrophe is probably the most common reason people give for continuing space exploration. Unfortunately, that is also the reason that investment in space exploration has been so meager. Right now, in the world there is about 6 trillion dollars invested in various equity markets, bonds, and other financial instruments, as the wealthy try to acquire more wealth.

Yet, the potential exists in space for the creation of more wealth than has been generated in all of human history. At the same time, we have an opportunity to protect the only place in all that we can see where we can walk unprotected under the open sky. Space mining will play a central part in this new industrial revolution, as raw materials are harvested from the Moon, Near Earth Objects, the asteroid belt, and the planets and their moons. Initially, the products made in space will be used exclusively on Earth, because that is where the market for those products exists. Gradually, we will see finished products being used in the construction of vehicles in space, habitats, and ground transportation systems.

First of all there is no way that the first application of space mining will be to serve the Earth. The only exception would be for materials not commonly found on Earth like Helium-3.

The first application will be ISRU. Water, metals, and etc will be mined and used in research outposts like the ISS since getting that material from Earth will be expensive.

Practically every calculation of the costs of operations in space are based upon the staggering cost of putting humans into Low Earth Orbit, because, once we are there, the costs to travel to other places is quite low. The most difficult part about operations in space is in getting into space, the initial acceleration to 5 miles per second. Until we develop a better method of reaching space, progress is going to be agonizingly slow. Not only are the methods we are using primitive, but they are not able to put large numbers of people in space at one time.

Launch costs are expensive and lowering them would make a difference, but I do not believe that they are the biggest cost in space travel.

Once we break through this technological barrier, things will change drastically. The private sector will be more willing to invest in space stations, mining, and processing of materials in space. This can be further encouraged by penalizing environmentally damaging practices on Earth, pushing up the cost of extracting ore, smelting it down, and making finished goods out of the resulting materials. These costs are already escalating, as humans claim for their own every square inch of land and sea bottom, energy prices rise, and pollution controls are imposed.

Advocating space exploration for the purpose of colonization tells investors that they can expect little in the way of returns for substantial periods of time, as the colonies mature until they become self-sufficient, and finally begin exporting goods. But emphasizing the commercial aspects of space exploration, the ability to create products which are impossible to make on Earth, yet which will have high value, this promotes investment with the expectation of a return in the fairly near future.

Greed is one of the most powerful motivating forces known to Man, far outstripping love, fear, and charity. If we can manipulate the greed of the wealthy investor, we can get the funding to create the infrastructure needed to make colonization a feasible, affordable option. But first, we need a cheap and easy way into space.

First of I disagree with your usage of greed. I believe you are confusing one of the human races best attributes with one of its worst. Greed is usually used in a negative context when someone does damage to someone else for self-gain. Since we are not causing any damage by exploiting space it cannot be characterized as greed. Instead it is one of our best attributes that being the will to improve ourselves. By going into space we gain knowledge, experience, and resources at no cost to anyone else.

Second of all your right about investment and commercialization. What many people do not understand is that the future of humanity in space not only depends on our ability to travel in space, but also our reasons for doing so. There are a number of places on Earth such as Antarctica, which are uninhabited even though we have the technological means of traveling there and living there. There is a great deal of sacrifice involved in settling in a new place. First of people have to leave a place that they are very familiar with behind along with all of the investment that they put into it. Then they have to face the uncertainty of a new location along with massive infrastructure investment needed to establish it. When people settled the new World they did it for the resources, the land, freedom from religious persecution, and etc.

That is why I have much hope for these commercial ventures.

 

[Couerl]

Hi and I agree,... Greed is nearly as sentimentalized and unnecessary as planting humans ala-Johnny Appleseed throughout the galaxy etc. It almost sounds funny to me hearing that kind of stuff. I would much prefer the word opportunity as it does not demonize success in general (you can bet your ass there will be space greenies too and they're not to be trusted) :ugeek: . Artificially constraining opportunity here on earth will not help either because the same people who will invest in space will be those who have already been successful here on earth. The best thing we could possibly do is burn all fossil fuel available at the very cheapest cost and do our best to ruin the climate and then we'll need to get off this damned rock. :lol:

 

[nimbus]

Greed is usually used in a negative context

"If the shoe doesn't fit"... Unhealthy greed is clearly not what he meant.

 

[neutrino78x]

The original poster hit the nail on the head

Is there anything in the solar system (off-Earth) with value sufficient to warrant mining?

This is the central question for establishing any long term presence in space. This includes a Martian colony; it has to be able to export something to pay back the set-up and running costs.

Exactly.

Possibilities:

He3 from the Moon is/was thought to possibly viable lunar export. It is widespread on the Moon, very rare on Earth

Yes, I have heard of that. Also, Mars has Deuterium in high concentrations, and deuterium is used today.

The key thing is to reduce the cost of going into orbit (see that thread "cheap and easy access to space"), then all these things will eventually fall into place.

--Brian

 

[rockett]

Yes, I have heard of that. Also, Mars has Deuterium in high concentrations, and deuterium is used today.

With streets paved with gold, and rivers of milk and honey, I'm sure too. :lol:

 

[halman]

Probably, what I have to say is going to upset some people, but I believe that the issues are important enough to warrant that. Treating space exploration as a romantic adventure to spread the human race out enough to survive some catastrophe is probably the most common reason people give for continuing space exploration. Unfortunately, that is also the reason that investment in space exploration has been so meager. Right now, in the world there is about 6 trillion dollars invested in various equity markets, bonds, and other financial instruments, as the wealthy try to acquire more wealth.

Yet, the potential exists in space for the creation of more wealth than has been generated in all of human history. At the same time, we have an opportunity to protect the only place in all that we can see where we can walk unprotected under the open sky. Space mining will play a central part in this new industrial revolution, as raw materials are harvested from the Moon, Near Earth Objects, the asteroid belt, and the planets and their moons. Initially, the products made in space will be used exclusively on Earth, because that is where the market for those products exists. Gradually, we will see finished products being used in the construction of vehicles in space, habitats, and ground transportation systems.

First of all there is no way that the first application of space mining will be to serve the Earth. The only exception would be for materials not commonly found on Earth like Helium-3.

The first application will be ISRU. Water, metals, and etc will be mined and used in research outposts like the ISS since getting that material from Earth will be expensive.

Practically every calculation of the costs of operations in space are based upon the staggering cost of putting humans into Low Earth Orbit, because, once we are there, the costs to travel to other places is quite low. The most difficult part about operations in space is in getting into space, the initial acceleration to 5 miles per second. Until we develop a better method of reaching space, progress is going to be agonizingly slow. Not only are the methods we are using primitive, but they are not able to put large numbers of people in space at one time.

Launch costs are expensive and lowering them would make a difference, but I do not believe that they are the biggest cost in space travel.

Once we break through this technological barrier, things will change drastically. The private sector will be more willing to invest in space stations, mining, and processing of materials in space. This can be further encouraged by penalizing environmentally damaging practices on Earth, pushing up the cost of extracting ore, smelting it down, and making finished goods out of the resulting materials. These costs are already escalating, as humans claim for their own every square inch of land and sea bottom, energy prices rise, and pollution controls are imposed.

Advocating space exploration for the purpose of colonization tells investors that they can expect little in the way of returns for substantial periods of time, as the colonies mature until they become self-sufficient, and finally begin exporting goods. But emphasizing the commercial aspects of space exploration, the ability to create products which are impossible to make on Earth, yet which will have high value, this promotes investment with the expectation of a return in the fairly near future.

Greed is one of the most powerful motivating forces known to Man, far outstripping love, fear, and charity. If we can manipulate the greed of the wealthy investor, we can get the funding to create the infrastructure needed to make colonization a feasible, affordable option. But first, we need a cheap and easy way into space.

First of I disagree with your usage of greed. I believe you are confusing one of the human races best attributes with one of its worst. Greed is usually used in a negative context when someone does damage to someone else for self-gain. Since we are not causing any damage by exploiting space it cannot be characterized as greed. Instead it is one of our best attributes that being the will to improve ourselves. By going into space we gain knowledge, experience, and resources at no cost to anyone else.

Second of all your right about investment and commercialization. What many people do not understand is that the future of humanity in space not only depends on our ability to travel in space, but also our reasons for doing so. There are a number of places on Earth such as Antarctica, which are uninhabited even though we have the technological means of traveling there and living there. There is a great deal of sacrifice involved in settling in a new place. First of people have to leave a place that they are very familiar with behind along with all of the investment that they put into it. Then they have to face the uncertainty of a new location along with massive infrastructure investment needed to establish it. When people settled the new World they did it for the resources, the land, freedom from religious persecution, and etc.

That is why I have much hope for these commercial ventures.

I maintain that the first uses of space mining will be to supply space factories with raw materials to manufacture products for sale on Earth. When people will spend thousands of dollars for a titanium golf club, or a light weight bicycle frame, there is no doubt in my mind that there are people who will pay for exotic goods which can only be made in space. As an example, a foamed aluminum, carbon fiber reinforced wrench, light enough to float on water, yet stronger than any solid steel wrench made on Earth, because the foam is annealed for two months. The consumption of these products will bring the cost of mining and manufacturing down, until everyday products made in space will be cheap enough for the average consumer to buy.

In-Situ Resource Utilization, or ISRU, implies that there is someone in-situ to utilize the resources. Who would that be? How will they survive until the processing of the resources is perfected? How will they pay for the process to be perfected? It would take a very large colony on the Moon to pay for the development of ISRU there. ISRU is what you do after you have explored, developed, and started to exploit a place, not the first thing.

The difficulty in getting off of Earth lies in the energy required, and the restrictions on applying energy close to the planet due to the atmosphere. Getting off of the Moon could be accomplished with a catapult, or lunatron, a track several kilometers long which magnetically accelerates a payload to escape velocity. A vehicle designed to leave Earth must be very strong, to survive the g forces and atmospheric buffeting. If we had a spacecraft in orbit which weighs what the shuttle weighs, and had the same amount of propellant, and the same engines, we could reach Mars in a matter of weeks, and still be able to slow down enough to go into orbit.

The biggest challenges in traveling around the Solar System lie in life support technology and radiation shielding. The mechanics of moving from point A to point B are simple and undemanding. It is merely that we have such a limited ability to put mass in orbit that we frame traveling to Mars, for instance, in terms of year-long journeys.

I define greed as the compulsion to acquire more than one can use or needs, or to acquire even more when one already has more than one can use or needs. I am not talking about an investor putting money into a mission to study the fauna of Mars, I am talking about an investor putting money into mining the Moon so that the resources can be used to make products which will sell at a substantial profit on Earth. As a result of that greed, we will develop the ability to explore further, and to learn more. But greed will not pay for those things, because greed doesn't see an immediate pay-off in them.

As long as the wealthiest people in the world perceive space exploration to be a bunch of kooks trying to build new worlds, they are not going to be interested in making any large investments in space. If we can convince them that space exploration is about making money, than the dollars will flow. The only way that money can be made in space right now is by manufacturing products there which cannot be manufactured here. Products that people will pay large sums for, just as they pay large sums for designer handbags, or fancy watches, fast cars, and 300 foot yachts.

What is currently being spent on cosmetics, make-up, in the United States every year would finance a space program that could have people living on the Moon in less than 25 years. The amount of money needed to open up space for exploitation is not all that large, in comparison to many other things that we spend our dollars on. We just need to convince people that there is something in it for them, so that they will want to invest.

 

[samkent]

Who needs a wrench that floats on water if it costs $1000? I can buy $3 wrenches at the cheapo store for the occasions where I work around water. That means I can afford to drop 300 of them in the lake and still have enough money left over to go out to dinner. Of course you might expect me to learn my lesson after the first 200 or so.

You will have to come up with something that the masses wants and can only come from up there.

There is nothing you can manufacture up there that can turn a profit in the next several decades.

 

[Valcan]

Who needs a wrench that floats on water if it costs $1000? I can buy $3 wrenches at the cheapo store for the occasions where I work around water. That means I can afford to drop 300 of them in the lake and still have enough money left over to go out to dinner. Of course you might expect me to learn my lesson after the first 200 or so.

You will have to come up with something that the masses wants and can only come from up there.

There is nothing you can manufacture up there that can turn a profit in the next several decades.

I think you missed his point....well entirely.

First off there hasnt been any true manufactureing in space to see what there is. Of course thats not counting medecine or things like that which can only be made in a weightless enviroment.

Its kinda like there is no reason to create the steam engine sence we already have sails to me. There is also the fact that your average asteroid has around 200 trillion dollars worth of material. Let me refrase that. The average asteroids make up is worth something around the entire US GDP a yr. Enough money for you?

And really if you told the buisnesses of any kind in any country you could get them a material that could float in water yet be stronger than steel they might try to kiss you.

It will take alot of investment but overtime will bring in more wealth in the form of materials, science and other such things than possibly any investment sence fire.

Not to mention we (the USA) could replace the vast magority of our nuke arsenal with KK projectiles. See earth friendly

 

[DarkenedOne]

I maintain that the first uses of space mining will be to supply space factories with raw materials to manufacture products for sale on Earth. When people will spend thousands of dollars for a titanium golf club, or a light weight bicycle frame, there is no doubt in my mind that there are people who will pay for exotic goods which can only be made in space. As an example, a foamed aluminum, carbon fiber reinforced wrench, light enough to float on water, yet stronger than any solid steel wrench made on Earth, because the foam is annealed for two months. The consumption of these products will bring the cost of mining and manufacturing down, until everyday products made in space will be cheap enough for the average consumer to buy.

In-Situ Resource Utilization, or ISRU, implies that there is someone in-situ to utilize the resources. Who would that be? How will they survive until the processing of the resources is perfected? How will they pay for the process to be perfected? It would take a very large colony on the Moon to pay for the development of ISRU there. ISRU is what you do after you have explored, developed, and started to exploit a place, not the first thing.

The problem with what your stating is that you are not considering the needs of the manufacturing operation itself. In order to manufacture something you need a manufacturing facility, a workforce, a source of raw materials, and transportation to get to the product to market. The facility and the workforce need to be sustained somehow. Now I suppose you could ship all of their food, water, air, fuel, and etc from Earth and only use local resources for the raw material for the item your manufacturing, but from an economic point of view this option will be incredibly expense at the current costs of space transportation. What makes far more sense is to try to make your mining and manufacturing operation be sustained by local materials.


What makes much more likely to happen is that a government will establish a small research outpost on moon. In order to decrease the cost of supplying the outpost. Using ISRU will bring down costs substantially, and allow for a bigger operation. Eventually manufacturing will take hold.

The difficulty in getting off of Earth lies in the energy required, and the restrictions on applying energy close to the planet due to the atmosphere. Getting off of the Moon could be accomplished with a catapult, or lunatron, a track several kilometers long which magnetically accelerates a payload to escape velocity. A vehicle designed to leave Earth must be very strong, to survive the g forces and atmospheric buffeting. If we had a spacecraft in orbit which weighs what the shuttle weighs, and had the same amount of propellant, and the same engines, we could reach Mars in a matter of weeks, and still be able to slow down enough to go into orbit.

The biggest challenges in traveling around the Solar System lie in life support technology and radiation shielding. The mechanics of moving from point A to point B are simple and undemanding. It is merely that we have such a limited ability to put mass in orbit that we frame traveling to Mars, for instance, in terms of year-long journeys.

I define greed as the compulsion to acquire more than one can use or needs, or to acquire even more when one already has more than one can use or needs. I am not talking about an investor putting money into a mission to study the fauna of Mars, I am talking about an investor putting money into mining the Moon so that the resources can be used to make products which will sell at a substantial profit on Earth. As a result of that greed, we will develop the ability to explore further, and to learn more. But greed will not pay for those things, because greed doesn't see an immediate pay-off in them.

As long as the wealthiest people in the world perceive space exploration to be a bunch of kooks trying to build new worlds, they are not going to be interested in making any large investments in space. If we can convince them that space exploration is about making money, than the dollars will flow. The only way that money can be made in space right now is by manufacturing products there which cannot be manufactured here. Products that people will pay large sums for, just as they pay large sums for designer handbags, or fancy watches, fast cars, and 300 foot yachts.

What is currently being spent on cosmetics, make-up, in the United States every year would finance a space program that could have people living on the Moon in less than 25 years. The amount of money needed to open up space for exploitation is not all that large, in comparison to many other things that we spend our dollars on. We just need to convince people that there is something in it for them, so that they will want to invest.

I think this is mostly true.

 

[Astro_Robert]

Actually there are a variety of things worth manufacturing in space due to the microgravity environment.

#1 Biological Crystal Growth. Sometimes developing new drugs requires evaluating how pure samples crystallize or obtaining sufficiently large crystal samples for testing. On Earth gravity and convection often conspire to make certain relatively unstable crystals too small to be useful. In microgravity these samples can grow larger. If you look at Space Shuttle manifests for the last like 20 years, you will find that many of the non-government payloads were crystal growth experiments run by the drug industry.

#2 Material Science. Certain materials, such as exotic metallic compounds do not mix well, and will separate out under gravity before they can cool to form a crystal. On Earth, companies are able to generate small crystals by releasing small droplets from tall towers into deep mine shafts. During the ~15 seconds of free fall the droplets crystallize and can be tested. However these droplets are small and result in small crystals. Again microgravity helps here and I believe some such test have been conducted in orbit.

#3 Availability. There are some rare isotopes that are more available in outer space than on Earth, but we do not at this time have a significant demand for these isotopes to justify off world mining. Although Helium-3 is a likely future candidate.

Otherwise I can see that there is very little reason in the foreseeable future to try and mine a metallic asteroid (for instance) for platinum, titanium or some other metal. Using local materials to support a lunar base would come in handy, but mining for most terrestrial needs will be supportable from terrestrial mines for some time yet I think.

 

[Couerl]

.... but mining for most terrestrial needs will be supportable from terrestrial mines for some time yet I think.

Which is why it is so critical to mine, burn, overpopulate and consume as much as we possibly can so we HAVE to get going. :ugeek:

Hehe.. :lol:

 

[Valcan]

Actually there are a variety of things worth manufacturing in space due to the microgravity environment.

#1 Biological Crystal Growth. Sometimes developing new drugs requires evaluating how pure samples crystallize or obtaining sufficiently large crystal samples for testing. On Earth gravity and convection often conspire to make certain relatively unstable crystals too small to be useful. In microgravity these samples can grow larger. If you look at Space Shuttle manifests for the last like 20 years, you will find that many of the non-government payloads were crystal growth experiments run by the drug industry.

#2 Material Science. Certain materials, such as exotic metallic compounds do not mix well, and will separate out under gravity before they can cool to form a crystal. On Earth, companies are able to generate small crystals by releasing small droplets from tall towers into deep mine shafts. During the ~15 seconds of free fall the droplets crystallize and can be tested. However these droplets are small and result in small crystals. Again microgravity helps here and I believe some such test have been conducted in orbit.

#3 Availability. There are some rare isotopes that are more available in outer space than on Earth, but we do not at this time have a significant demand for these isotopes to justify off world mining. Although Helium-3 is a likely future candidate.

Otherwise I can see that there is very little reason in the foreseeable future to try and mine a metallic asteroid (for instance) for platinum, titanium or some other metal. Using local materials to support a lunar base would come in handy, but mining for most terrestrial needs will be supportable from terrestrial mines for some time yet I think.

Yes but like the name says rare earth metals are very rare. Currently almost all of them come from china who is using more and more doesticaly yr after yr.

Even at peak performance we only mine world wide less than a thousand tons each yr.

Getting these metals in larger amounts would make the cost for many many high tech items come down. And as the cost goes down so does demand. Not to mention this would set the way for alot of other things needed in space.

 

[sftommy]

In the near future we will need lots of fuel for spacecraft leaving Earth orbit.
Shipping fuels off of earth is expensive.

Raw materials for fuels appear to be more prevalent in the Kuiper belt than in the asteroid belt (gases versus metals). Redirection of a frozen gas ball from the Kuiper belt to Earth orbit might be achieved with "relatively" little expense using subtle powered nudges and gravitational forces. Once in Earth orbit a solar heated refinery would sort out the gasses. Not without risk putting anything in Earth's orbit, tidal changes, electromagnetic field changes, meteor crashes, etc,

The same could be done for our efforts exploring other planets, too. Putting one in Mars’ or Venus’ orbit might be a good test.