SpaceX to build a BFR

[elguapoguano]

It's all just talk untill he launches his LFR the Falcon 1, once it flies successfully multiple times, then we can talk about the MSFR (medium sized ******* Rocket) the Falcon 5 or 9 or whatever he's calling it this week. Once that has flown successfully multiple times, then finally we can talk seriously about his "BFR"... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ff0000"><u><em>Don't let your sig line incite a gay thread ;>)</em></u></font> </div>

 

[spacefire]

very well put.<br />Big F'ing Words don't cost anything. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[spacefire]

very well put.<br />Big F'ing Words don't cost anything. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[n_kitson]

I am always flabbergasted when someone that is obviously, by all indications, intelligent chooses to resort to profanities to describe something. The use of profanities in my mind is normally an indication of a lack of will power to formulate a constructive argument, comment or description and a sign that the person is controlled by reactive emotions instead of rational thinking.<br /><br />I've been following SpaceX since I was a first year at Wharton in 2002. Mr Musk is afterall an alum from my school and I've been very excited about having someone with a credible business background enter the space industry with a credible program.<br /><br />However, his continuing announcement of ever larger paper rockets in an industry that is in a spiralling decline is disappointing. When Falcon 1 was announced, the argument was that there was a growing need for small, cheap launch vehicles to provide cheap access to orbit for small companies, universities and research organizations. The economics of Falcon 1 in 2003 were dependant on the declining large launch market and a belief that the small market would grow if it was cheaper.<br /><br />Reading his latest press release, his unnecessary use of profanities is followed by an ominous statement. He says that he has invested more cash into the company than he intended, and that he does not intend to continue pouring cash into SpaceX. Yes, he does mention that he is looking at alternatives for cash. However, if the founder is looking to cap his exposure, will future investors take a risk?

 

[n_kitson]

I am always flabbergasted when someone that is obviously, by all indications, intelligent chooses to resort to profanities to describe something. The use of profanities in my mind is normally an indication of a lack of will power to formulate a constructive argument, comment or description and a sign that the person is controlled by reactive emotions instead of rational thinking.<br /><br />I've been following SpaceX since I was a first year at Wharton in 2002. Mr Musk is afterall an alum from my school and I've been very excited about having someone with a credible business background enter the space industry with a credible program.<br /><br />However, his continuing announcement of ever larger paper rockets in an industry that is in a spiralling decline is disappointing. When Falcon 1 was announced, the argument was that there was a growing need for small, cheap launch vehicles to provide cheap access to orbit for small companies, universities and research organizations. The economics of Falcon 1 in 2003 were dependant on the declining large launch market and a belief that the small market would grow if it was cheaper.<br /><br />Reading his latest press release, his unnecessary use of profanities is followed by an ominous statement. He says that he has invested more cash into the company than he intended, and that he does not intend to continue pouring cash into SpaceX. Yes, he does mention that he is looking at alternatives for cash. However, if the founder is looking to cap his exposure, will future investors take a risk?

 

[nacnud]

I think the BFR has always been in the back of Eltons mind, and BFR is not even a working title its before even getting that far. As for profanities WTF? (joke!)

 

[nacnud]

I think the BFR has always been in the back of Eltons mind, and BFR is not even a working title its before even getting that far. As for profanities WTF? (joke!)

 

[mikejz]

Mind you he said clearly he was not going to build it unless there was a customer for it. In other words, it exists, and will exist only on paper until someone expresses some intrest. <br /><br />Mind you the idea of going after the high cost of a SDHLLV is a nice market to be in if he can reduce costs by a nice factor---but unless Nasa opens up the booster to bidding, it is a futle effort. <br /><br />Bottom line, the BFR is simply a dream that Musk does not have the cash for--he needs to line up over a Billion in VC before he could start.

 

[mikejz]

Mind you he said clearly he was not going to build it unless there was a customer for it. In other words, it exists, and will exist only on paper until someone expresses some intrest. <br /><br />Mind you the idea of going after the high cost of a SDHLLV is a nice market to be in if he can reduce costs by a nice factor---but unless Nasa opens up the booster to bidding, it is a futle effort. <br /><br />Bottom line, the BFR is simply a dream that Musk does not have the cash for--he needs to line up over a Billion in VC before he could start.

 

[dobbins]

Is it all his money? He had investors in his Internet businesss and there is no reason to think that he hasn't done the same with SpaceX.<br /><br />I wish SpaceX the best of luck, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that so far they have produced far more hype than rocket launches.<br /><br />

 

[dobbins]

Is it all his money? He had investors in his Internet businesss and there is no reason to think that he hasn't done the same with SpaceX.<br /><br />I wish SpaceX the best of luck, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that so far they have produced far more hype than rocket launches.<br /><br />

 

[spacefire]

come on, we all know what BFR really stands for and the BFW was just a wordplay on that.<br />Lighten up! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[spacefire]

come on, we all know what BFR really stands for and the BFW was just a wordplay on that.<br />Lighten up! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[tap_sa]

<font color="yellow">"Bottom line, the BFR is simply a dream that Musk does not have the cash for"</font><br /><br />Maybe not to build but he does have the cash to design it.<br /> <br />As a general note not meant for anyone particular: it's tempting to just wonder and play it down how SpaceX keeps revealing yet another paper rocket while the first real one still sits on the pad. But let's consider this, the article stated the structure of Elon's company:<br /><br /><i>"SpaceX right now has about 160 employees, including about 40 working on propulsion, 30 on avionics, 30 on structures, and 50 in manufacturing."</i><br /><br />and also that the main problem that has been bugging them is the engine ablatives. Structure is ready, avionics is ready, engine is almost complete (or ready is if the latest tests went succesful), what does it mean? It means that Elon has a lot of employees on those areas that have plenty of time to do other things than worry about Falcon I. He could let them playing minefield, or, have them design more rockets even if customer base is still a bit unclear. In either case he's gonna have to play their salaries. What would you do?

 

[tap_sa]

<font color="yellow">"Bottom line, the BFR is simply a dream that Musk does not have the cash for"</font><br /><br />Maybe not to build but he does have the cash to design it.<br /> <br />As a general note not meant for anyone particular: it's tempting to just wonder and play it down how SpaceX keeps revealing yet another paper rocket while the first real one still sits on the pad. But let's consider this, the article stated the structure of Elon's company:<br /><br /><i>"SpaceX right now has about 160 employees, including about 40 working on propulsion, 30 on avionics, 30 on structures, and 50 in manufacturing."</i><br /><br />and also that the main problem that has been bugging them is the engine ablatives. Structure is ready, avionics is ready, engine is almost complete (or ready is if the latest tests went succesful), what does it mean? It means that Elon has a lot of employees on those areas that have plenty of time to do other things than worry about Falcon I. He could let them playing minefield, or, have them design more rockets even if customer base is still a bit unclear. In either case he's gonna have to play their salaries. What would you do?

 

[mikejz]

The problem I see with SpaceX is it's efforts to 'launch' new products (boosters) in such a rapid succession. It seems to be a business that feels that rapid growth is needed to keep it in the black, that seems like a bad sign to me.

 

[mikejz]

The problem I see with SpaceX is it's efforts to 'launch' new products (boosters) in such a rapid succession. It seems to be a business that feels that rapid growth is needed to keep it in the black, that seems like a bad sign to me.

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">Is it all his money? He had investors in his Internet businesss and there is no reason to think that he hasn't done the same with SpaceX.</font>/i><br /><br />From what I have read before, he has been funding the current development himself; although, I suspect their has been some "in kind" contribution by employees (e.g., lower salaries and benefits in return for stock or stock options).<br /><br />Musk has also said the larger rockets (Falcon 5 and now 9 presumably) would require outside investors. From the discussions, it sounded like he would use the success of the first Falcon 1 launches to attract those investors.<br /><br />I also recall Musk saying that he could continue funding SpaceX through two failures of Falcon 1, but after that he would need success.<br /><br />Bottom line: Musk has provided the cash so far, employees probably have taken salary and budget cuts for a percentage of the company, and outside investors will be needed to proceed beyond Falcon 1.</i>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">Is it all his money? He had investors in his Internet businesss and there is no reason to think that he hasn't done the same with SpaceX.</font>/i><br /><br />From what I have read before, he has been funding the current development himself; although, I suspect their has been some "in kind" contribution by employees (e.g., lower salaries and benefits in return for stock or stock options).<br /><br />Musk has also said the larger rockets (Falcon 5 and now 9 presumably) would require outside investors. From the discussions, it sounded like he would use the success of the first Falcon 1 launches to attract those investors.<br /><br />I also recall Musk saying that he could continue funding SpaceX through two failures of Falcon 1, but after that he would need success.<br /><br />Bottom line: Musk has provided the cash so far, employees probably have taken salary and budget cuts for a percentage of the company, and outside investors will be needed to proceed beyond Falcon 1.</i>

 

[n_kitson]

Good question. Musk got $250MM from the sale of Paypal, but he had a company before that which he also sold. In the article he says:<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><i>Musk said he has invested “about $100 million” so far in SpaceX. “I expected to invest less” through the development of the Falcon 1, he added . “There’s a limit to how far I can carry the company."...<br /><br />Musk said that he hopes that with a successful flight of the Falcon 1 he will be able to raise an outside round of investment on the order of $50–100 million by early next year. “Hopefully the $100 million is the only money I have to put in personally.”</i></font>/i><br /><br />I'm sure he has managed to sign additional investors up.<br />

 

[n_kitson]

Good question. Musk got $250MM from the sale of Paypal, but he had a company before that which he also sold. In the article he says:<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><i>Musk said he has invested “about $100 million” so far in SpaceX. “I expected to invest less” through the development of the Falcon 1, he added . “There’s a limit to how far I can carry the company."...<br /><br />Musk said that he hopes that with a successful flight of the Falcon 1 he will be able to raise an outside round of investment on the order of $50–100 million by early next year. “Hopefully the $100 million is the only money I have to put in personally.”</i></font>/i><br /><br />I'm sure he has managed to sign additional investors up.<br />

 

[n_kitson]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I think the BFR has always been in the back of Eltons mind<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />His original plan was to send a private rover to Mars. He hired some LockMart engineers and scientists and decided it was not a feasible private project at this stage.<br /><br />He has been clear all along that ultimately he would like to see human exploration of Mars, but I'm always nervous when someone or some group announces ever bigger paper planes without anything flying yet. We've seen it from so many: Beale, Roton, OTRAG and so many others.

 

[n_kitson]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I think the BFR has always been in the back of Eltons mind<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />His original plan was to send a private rover to Mars. He hired some LockMart engineers and scientists and decided it was not a feasible private project at this stage.<br /><br />He has been clear all along that ultimately he would like to see human exploration of Mars, but I'm always nervous when someone or some group announces ever bigger paper planes without anything flying yet. We've seen it from so many: Beale, Roton, OTRAG and so many others.

 

[n_kitson]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>come on, we all know what BFR really stands for and the BFW was just a wordplay on that. <br />Lighten up!<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Yea, yea, I should lighten up. I'm just feeling really, really dissappointed in SpaceX. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> I was incredibly excited about them. At a stage when they got no press coverage and everyone was composing odes to Burt Rutan's rocket plane, Armadillo's flying lawn chair and Canadian Arrow's V2, I was getting really excited about SpaceX.<br /><br />- Elon was from my school (always nice!)<br /><br />- He had a vision for space exploration that matched mine: (i) focus on orbital, sub-orbital is irrelevant, (ii) build a small reliable cheap launcher to generate cash, (iii) build a reputation and then start scaling up<br /><br />Unfortunately, like NASA and all the others he has shown himself to be wildly optimistic in his estimates. Granted, he is new in the game and has had to learn from experience. However, he hired some of the best engineers and scientists from LockMart - people who were fed up with paper planes and wanted to deliver something real. And he seems to still be wildly optimistic. <br /><br />Come on Elon. Enough with the "F" words! Enough with the fancy conferences! Enough with the musicians! Roll your sleeves up and get the Falcon 1 flying!

 

[n_kitson]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>come on, we all know what BFR really stands for and the BFW was just a wordplay on that. <br />Lighten up!<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Yea, yea, I should lighten up. I'm just feeling really, really dissappointed in SpaceX. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> I was incredibly excited about them. At a stage when they got no press coverage and everyone was composing odes to Burt Rutan's rocket plane, Armadillo's flying lawn chair and Canadian Arrow's V2, I was getting really excited about SpaceX.<br /><br />- Elon was from my school (always nice!)<br /><br />- He had a vision for space exploration that matched mine: (i) focus on orbital, sub-orbital is irrelevant, (ii) build a small reliable cheap launcher to generate cash, (iii) build a reputation and then start scaling up<br /><br />Unfortunately, like NASA and all the others he has shown himself to be wildly optimistic in his estimates. Granted, he is new in the game and has had to learn from experience. However, he hired some of the best engineers and scientists from LockMart - people who were fed up with paper planes and wanted to deliver something real. And he seems to still be wildly optimistic. <br /><br />Come on Elon. Enough with the "F" words! Enough with the fancy conferences! Enough with the musicians! Roll your sleeves up and get the Falcon 1 flying!