Strange claim that the 9/27 Shenzou mission was a dry run threat against the ISS

silylene old · Nov 3, 2008

<p>I don't put any credence into this rather bizarre and even paranoid claim.  Still, the fact that this was posted on this rather prominent military blog site means that some members or ex-members of the US military must have had some concern.</p><p>http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htspace/articles/20081103.aspx</p><h1><span>Chinese Space Walkers Stalk The Space Station</span></h1><span><p align="left"><span>November 3, 2008: On September 27th, a Chinese Shenzhou space capsule came within 45 kilometers of the International Space Station, and two of the three crewmen made the first Chinese space walk (going outside the spacecraft in their space suits.) Later, a small, 88 pound microsatellite (the BX-1) was released from the Shenzhou. This was supposed to be a science experiment, but the fact that the Shenzhou came so close to the International Space Station, and then released a smaller, maneuverable (via small gas jets) BX-1, indicated another satellite destruction drill. The BX-1 could easily have been directed at the nearby space station, and destroyed it. </span></p><p align="left"><span>Of course, China denied this, but they were also criticized for bringing the Shenzhou so close to the International Space Station, and then releasing a smaller satellite that they subsequently lost control of.</span> </p><p align="left"><span>The 7.8 ton Shenzhou was built along the same lines as earlier Russian Soyuz (which the Chinese had extensive technical data on). The Shenzhou is 13 percent larger than the Soyuz craft, and, naturally, of more modern design. So far, there have been three unmanned Shenzhou launches (1999, 2001 and 2002) to test the system, and three manned launches (2003, 2005 and 2008) so far. The very first space walk, was by a Russian, in March, 1965. The first American space walk was three months later. Four years later, there was the first space walk on solid ground, when two Americans landed on the moon.</span> </p></span> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

silylene old · Nov 3, 2008

I look forward to the day when mankind can leave this Cold War paranoia behind us.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

CalliArcale · Nov 3, 2008

<p>*rollseyes*</p><p><br />Seems like an awfully expensive and complicated way to threaten the ISS.  I mean, the Chinese ASAT test was a more significant threat.  What would this demonstrate that hadn't already been better demonstrated earlier? </p><p>I look forward to that day too, silylene. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em> -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

trailrider · Nov 3, 2008

All the Chinese have to do is refuse to lend us more money! That'll take care of the ISS!

JonClarke · Nov 3, 2008

<p>Baseless paranoia from sinophobes.  Unfortunately such people are still influential in some circles.</p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em> Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Nov 3, 2008

<p>You know, if they took the opportunity to make a statement with their spacewalk, what of it?  It's not like everyone isn't aware that the ISS would be vulnerable to an effort by a space-capable nation to destroy it.  If people are concerned about it, then haven't they been successful in their effort?</p><p>Certainly, that wasn't only why the Shenzou mission was undertaken.  If they took the opportunity to put a bit of dual-purpose campaigning into it, big deal.  What they're really saying with such an action is "You guys should get our participation!  We're right outside your front door!" and then they thumbed their noses at the ISS and introduced a bit of Cold War drama to drive home the point. "Look what we can do without you!"</p><h1><font size="2">China takes aim at the space station</font></h1><p>They could participate if they wanted to.  What they don't want to do is appear to submit to international pressures.  So, they're doing everything else possible to explore other avenues. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

JonClarke · Nov 4, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Perhaps the Chi-coms are POd with our Russian partners and not us. Might want to be thinking about exploiting a potential rift for our benefit. Play the China card against Russia's playing the Iran card . . .        <br />Posted by vogon13</DIV><br /><br />I consider terms such as "Chi-coms" as outdated, unnecessary and highly offensive, indicative of sinophobia.  As such I have reported your post to the adminstrators.</p><p>Jon</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em> Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

JonClarke · Nov 4, 2008

<p>Thde claim that this was an ASAT demonstration is just silly.</p><p>If you believe that, you will believe in Santa Claus.</p><p>The Chinese have already shown that they have ASAT capability.  And it is not part of the Shenzhou program.  </p><p>There is not the slightest evidence that the Shenzhou program has specific military applications.  </p><p>You have to ask whose interests are served by spreading such rubbish.</p><p>Jon</p><p> </p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em> Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

silylene old · Nov 4, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thde claim that this was an ASAT demonstration is just silly.If you believe that, you will believe in Santa Claus.The Chinese have already shown that they have ASAT capability.  And it is not part of the Shenzhou program.  There is not the slightest evidence that the Shenzhou program has specific military applications.  You have to ask whose interests are served by spreading such rubbish.Jon   <br />Posted by jonclarke</DIV></p><p>Jon, of course this is rubbish.  What is interesting to me is that some people actually do believe in these paranoid conspiracies.  And. since it got posted to strategypage.com first, my guess if that this website got this story from a leak from some faction within the US military.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

Boris_Badenov · Nov 4, 2008

<font size="2">The best ASAT I've ever heard of is essentially a bid dumb bomb full of sand. You just fire it into the correct orbit & let er rip. It'll eventually spread out into the entire orbit & beat the crap out of everything else there, taking it all out. The only possible reason to send uninvited Taikonauts would be to board & capture.</font> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> <font size="2">Could you imagine hearing the order to repel boarders on the ISS? <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif" border="0" alt="Surprised" title="Surprised" /> Do you suppose they have any pikes available for that duty?</font>  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

vogon13 · Nov 4, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I consider terms such as "Chi-coms" as outdated, unnecessary and highly offensive, indicative of sinophobia.  As such I have reported your post to the adminstrators.Jon <br /> Posted by jonclarke</DIV></p><p> </p><p>No offense intended, I was too lazy to type out "Chinese Communists" in full, so I abbreviated the term. </p><p> </p><p><strong>abbreviation, </strong><em>n. </em><strong>1. </strong>a shortened form of a word or phrase used to represent the whole </p><p><em>(from Random House Webster's Dcionary)</em></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>And, since this is an interesting topic, this bit from Wiki:</p><p> </p><h1 class="firstHeading">Communist Party of China</h1> <h3 id="siteSub">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</h3> <div id="jump-to-nav">Jump to: navigation, search</div> <table border="0" class="metadata plainlinks ambox ambox-content"> <tbody><tr> <td class="mbox-image"> <div style="width:52px"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png" border="0" alt="" width="50" height="39" /></div>

CalliArcale · Nov 4, 2008

<p>*mod hat on*</p><p> All right, that's enough, vogon13.  "Ingest meconium", while colorful and inventive, is not appropriate.  You know the more vernacular version of the phrase is not allowed; surely you realize the more technical equivalent would not be permitted either?  Whatever defense you have for "chi-com", there's no defense for this.  Knock it off. </p><p>*mod hat off* </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em> -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

trailrider · Nov 4, 2008

<p>Boris1961 wrote, in part, "<font size="2">Could you imagine hearing the order to repel boarders on the ISS? <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif" border="0" alt="Surprised" title="Surprised" /> Do you suppose they have any pikes available for that duty?"</font></p><p><font size="2">Actually, my understanding is there is at least a shotgun on board the Soyuz "lifeboat" docked to the station, and I'm not sure if there isn't another firearm of some sort aboard the ISS proper.</font></p><p><font size="2">Of course, all this is pretty silly...unless you are writing an updated version of "Moonraker" or somesuch sci-fi (oops, science fiction...no abbreviations permitted)!  Personally, I prefer phasers set on heavy stun, or Klingon disruptors, though they can get messy! </font> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-innocent.gif" border="0" alt="Innocent" title="Innocent" /></p><div class="Discussion_UserSignature"><font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2"><p> </p></font></span></font></div>

shuttle_guy · Nov 4, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Boris1961 wrote, in part, "Could you imagine hearing the order to repel boarders on the ISS?  Do you suppose they have any pikes available for that duty?"Actually, my understanding is there is at least a shotgun on board the Soyuz "lifeboat" docked to the station, and I'm not sure if there isn't another firearm of some sort aboard the ISS proper.Of course, all this is pretty silly...unless you are writing an updated version of "Moonraker" or somesuch sci-fi (oops, science fiction...no abbreviations permitted)!  Personally, I prefer phasers set on heavy stun, or Klingon disruptors, though they can get messy!    <br />Posted by trailrider</DIV></p><p>The Russian Soyuz has a hand gun stowed for protection against animals etc. if they land off target.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Nov 4, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Jon, of course this is rubbish.  What is interesting to me is that some people actually do believe in these paranoid conspiracies.  And. since it got posted to strategypage.com first, my guess if that this website got this story from a leak from some faction within the US military. <br />Posted by silylene</DIV></p><p> </p><p>This article by Brian Weeden in The Space Review shows how flimsy the evidence for the Shenzhou mission being an ASAT dummy from on the ISS is.</p><p>http://thespacereview.com/article/1235/1</p><p>An earlier article in The Space Review by Dwayne Day shows how risible some Pentagon assessments of the Chinese space "threat" actually are http://thespacereview.com/article/1155/1.</p><p>Nothing pleases some segments of the military (regardless of nationality) better than an external threat.  If a threat does not exist, then you can always try to manufacture one.</p><p>Jon</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em> Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

silylene old · Nov 5, 2008

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> This article by Brian Weeden in The Space Review shows how flimsy the evidence for the Shenzhou mission being an ASAT dummy from on the ISS is.http://thespacereview.com/article/1235/1An earlier article in The Space Review by Dwayne Day shows how risible some Pentagon assessments of the Chinese space "threat" actually are http://thespacereview.com/article/1155/1.Nothing pleases some segments of the military (regardless of nationality) better than an external threat.  If a threat does not exist, then you can always try to manufacture one.Jon <br />Posted by jonclarke</DIV><br /><br />Thanks for the links.  I hadn't seen either article before.  The Weeden article was good. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

lampblack · Nov 6, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Could you imagine hearing the order to repel boarders on the ISS?  Do you suppose they have any pikes available for that duty?  <br /> Posted by boris1961</DIV></p><p><font size="2">First, there would be the small matter of opening the door and making one's way inside. No small task given the environment.</font></p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

vogon13 · Nov 7, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>*mod hat on* All right, that's enough, vogon13.  "Ingest meconium", while colorful and inventive, is not appropriate.  You know the more vernacular version of the phrase is not allowed; surely you realize the more technical equivalent would not be permitted either?  Whatever defense you have for "chi-com", there's no defense for this.  Knock it off. *mod hat off* <br /> Posted by CalliArcale</DIV></p><p> </p><p>So how long does it take to get Chi-coms installed in the language filter so no one else inadvertantly POs jonclarke  ??</p><p> </p><p>Or are his concerns being "poo-poo'd" like so many others around here ??</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

kelvinzero · Nov 7, 2008

<p>American suspicions of the intentions of other countries are probably largely responsible for us getting to the moon so it has it's upsides. If only Bush could have.. Oh well lets not go there.</p><p> Shenzou to destroy the ISS is obviously silly. The notion that they are gaining the ability become an ISS member at the drop of a hat though, that is surely interesting especially with america facing a gap without manned spaceflight. I dont mean 'interesting' in terms of some conspiracy already underway, just that with any falling out with russia the ISS could become a very political topic.</p><p> </p>

CalliArcale · Nov 7, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> So how long does it take to get Chi-coms installed in the language filter so no one else inadvertantly POs jonclarke  ?? Or are his concerns being "poo-poo'd" like so many others around here ??     <br /> Posted by vogon13</DIV></p><p>If you want to discuss what language is appropriate and what is not, please do it in User Talkback, not in a thread about the plausibility of a threat by Shenzhou 7 against the ISS.  Alternately, you can contact the admins or you can e-mail me at calliarcale@gmail.com (note: I can only check that e-mail in the evenings now, due to paranoid IT).  For the record, I consder "chi-coms" borderline at worst, but "ingest meconium" is clearly over the line and I would thank you not to repeat it. </p><p>EDIT: Correction: I've just been told of a way to get at my e-mail during the day!  Yippee!  You can now use that e-mail to reach me, anytime. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em> -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

vogon13 · Nov 8, 2008

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Boris1961 wrote, in part, "Could you imagine hearing the order to repel boarders on the ISS?  Do you suppose they have any pikes available for that duty?"Actually, my understanding is there is at least a shotgun on board the Soyuz "lifeboat" docked to the station, and I'm not sure if there isn't another firearm of some sort aboard the ISS proper.Of course, all this is pretty silly...unless you are writing an updated version of "Moonraker" or somesuch sci-fi (oops, science fiction...no abbreviations permitted)!  Personally, I prefer phasers set on heavy stun, or Klingon disruptors, though they can get messy!    <br /> Posted by trailrider</DIV></p><p> </p><p>Would angling the solar panels to reflect substantially more solar flux on the 'attacking' craft be effective ??  I can't imagine why the craft would have been designed with more than 110% cooling capacity, and overloading the life support system could solve the 'problem' rather handily.</p><p> </p><p>Recall the Japanese craft orbiting the asteroid having it's cooling system overload from reflected flux, same principle here. </p><p> </p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

Strange claim that the 9/27 Shenzou mission was a dry run threat against the ISS

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