Suppose someone dies enroute to Mars

[willpittenger]

Same problem if they died just after the burn that would take them home or during an abort. Assume they died of something like radiation exposure. You can't just store the body until you get home due to the possibility of disease. You can't toss it overboard as Apollo 13 had debris shadowing them all the way back to Earth. "Oh, look, there is George." Do you bring along a crematory just in case?<br /><br />Now if they died on Mars, you could leave them on the surface. Plenty of people died while exploring the New World where simply left behind when they died. If they died in orbit prior to abandoning the lander, you could put the body in there to "die" with the lander. But otherwise, I figure you have a problem. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[kosmonavtkaa]

<font color="orange"><i>ow if they died on Mars, you could leave them on the surface.</i></font><br /><br />Though there would be concerns from planetary scientists about Mars's surface being contaminated with bacteria from the body.<br /><br />Could possibly put the body in a bodybag and tie it up outside the spaceship so it would become mummified; then it could be ejected into Earth's atmosphere on return, to burn up.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

Excellent question and its a problem any way you look at it. As far as burial in space, you actually could jettison the body from the craft and it would trail for awhile but the distance between it and the spacecraft would grow each day. Within hours, the separation would be enough to not be able to see George at some point.<br /><br />Apollo 13 debris would shadow the craft in a sense but without the burn that the LM provided for the CSM to put both on a free return trajectory, the debris would have been on a substantially altered course back to earth and probably flew past earth.<br /><br />On the martian surface, what you suggested is probably the only practical way to deal with a death on mars itself. Disposing of the body in the lander also seems to be the most practicle method if death occurs after departing the martian surface.<br /><br />Then there are scenarios that simply cannot be foreseen or addressed even if they are foreseen. Imagine a Zubrin type ERV lifts off from its descent vehicle on mars leaving some mars base personnell behind. A Soyuz type depressurization of the ERV cabin occurs enroute to the mother ship. The ERV being most likely automatically guided, docks with those that remained aboard...the few aboard the mother craft knows something is up and sees the worst when they have to open the hatches. Or see the unresponsive bodies via digicams aboard the ERV.<br /><br />So many scenarios...so little time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

better bring a body bag. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

This is certainly something that will have to be looked at. With such long<br />journey times & time away from Earth, this is a real possibility.<br /><br />It is a good question.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Or as was said in Rambo...better bring a good supply of body bags. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

yeah, they could stow them next to the stash of duck tape for disgruntled crewmembers. (Now that's not a nice kit) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[henryhallam]

<font color="yellow"> Assume they died of something like radiation exposure</font><br />From a reactor problem perhaps, but solar/cosmic radiation isn't nearly strong enough to cause acute radiation poisoning even during major flares. The concern is for future cancer risk.

 

[qso1]

I addressed that issue in my GN and I think your right. I did a chart (Just one illustration in the GN) based on data I dug up on radiation exposure. I don't have it handy and we cant post images here anymore anyway. If I had it, I could see what the expected exposure levels were enroute to mars. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[themanwithoutapast]

There is a problem of course with a dead body both in flight and on the mars surface. There won't be any 'cold storage room' or equivalent on the mars transfer ship nor on the Marsian surface. <br /><br />On the Marsian surface, it would therefore be required to bury or store the body outside of the pressurized cabin in order to avoid the effects on your normal environment of a decomposing body (even if it is in a body bag).<br /><br />On the Mars-Earth transfer it is somewhat similar - you either find a place in the ship where a body can be put in storage (maybe in a special kind of body bag which is totally airtight) or you store the body outside of the pressurized sections of the ship. In this case the question of course also remains, whether from an ethical standpoint, relatives of the deceased would want the body to be returned to Earth...

 

[no_way]

strap a small solid rocket on his arse and fire him out of the airlock. problem solved and more room for everybody.<br />Oh wait, George was actually the only guy who could land this bucket ?

 

[rsa_4]

Food?

 

[tanstaafl76]

<br />Damn, poor George, he was a good guy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>> better bring a body bag.</i><br /><br />The body could be stored in the former crewmember's flight pressure suit, then lashed outside on the hull to mummify. Space burial makes a lot of sense in-transit, because the corpse wouldn't survive aerobraking/EDL at either planet. I don't recommend storing bodies inside unless the spacecraft has some kind of stasis/hibernation device, at which point the crew member is likely not actually dead, just beyond the local medical capabilities. No Mars craft will have a morgue onboard for the forseeable future. On top of that, nobody wants to sit next to the mummy during deorbit. <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /><br /><br />As far as dieing on Mars itself, local burial makes the most sense. The first humans and first feces storage on Mars automatically will spread our bacteria, so some freeze-dried corpses buried in the back 40 aren't going to make that much difference. Explorers and sailors have traditionally buried the fallen, not brought the bodies home. Mars/space exploration should prove no different. <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

I think you'd have to follow the example of centuries of mariners and jettison the body, due to the health hazards of keeping it onboard (not to mention the, um, pardon the expression, "dead weight"). ISS crews occasionally jettison stuff, even quite large stuff, without the benefit of rocket motors strapped to the jettisoned material. They just give it a good push.<br /><br />I'm reminded of SuitSat now....<br /><br />If they died on the Martian surface, I think you'd leave them there. The risks to the crew would probably outweigh the risk of contamination -- especially since the mere presence of living crew would have probably already rendered that issue moot. I understand and support the scientists who don't want to contaminate another planet, potentially destroying huge amounts of future science, but we're going to have to come to terms with the fact that there's no practical way of preventing contamination once you're sending humans. It's hard enough to keep unmanned probes clean (and realistically, they're not sterile even after they get sanitized prior to flight). Manned probes would be impossible to keep clean, since the crew themselves are walking ecosystems. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[no_way]

Hmm.... now when i think about the panacea of Closed Loop Life Support System .. how closed do we really mean ? :/

 

[j05h]

So Closed Loop that you can live in your sun-powered BioSuit for years without a problem. How about that closed? Like the Lobster King in Bruce Sterling's Crystal Express.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[franontanaya]

They could keep George as figurehead on the cruise ship for extra micrometeoroid shielding. <br /><br />Then recover it for the science value of tissues and bacteria exposed to the space.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[symbolite]

New NEO George lol <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[tanstaafl76]

<br />Apart from the practical aspects of body storage/disposal, what about the psychological effect on remaining crew members? Especially if George was the mission commander?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[tanstaafl76]

And to take it in a totally different directions, what if two crew members get their freak on and we wind up with a pregnant mission specialist! :0<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[symbolite]

Well they can definatly learn some interesting science from that. Though i don't think the baby is going to be to happy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>So Closed Loop that you can live in your sun-powered BioSuit for years without a problem<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />I dont think you got what i was pointing at. George in our case is biomaterial, in a closed loop system which is the Mars-bound spaceship. Isnt it kind of waste dumping it overboard ? 8|<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Like the Lobster King in Bruce Sterling's Crystal Express. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Havent read Sterling in quite a while .. ive got two volumes of Gardner Dozois's Years Best Science Fiction still to go through, just finished Powersat by Ben Bova and then theres a stack of Heinlein waiting.

 

[hewes]

George stew! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[symbolite]

are you suggesting eating george?<br /><br />yummy george, i call dibbs on the leg! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>