Tesla Talk

[vidar]

We seem to differ in opinion on whether Tesla was a true inventor and Einstein a true genius. However, I can moderate my stand. Tesla did apply for a lot of patents, maybe more than he invented himself, and more than the patent office accepted. For example the US Patent Office reversed its decision and awarded Guglielmo Marconi the patent for radio.<br /><br />Tesla read a lot and applied for a lot of patents, even less than he had drawings of. Einstein worked as a clerk at the patent office and saw the refined ideas, and was very inspired. However, true scientific works takes lots of generations of lots of people to develop and is seldom a single person’s work. I guess it’s like the software and publishing business. In the end, it’s mainly about the art of rip-off.<br /><br />It makes me think about Leonardo da Vinci.<br />

 

[qso1]

I wholeheartedly agree with you there. Especially about ripping off. I have even heard that Thomas Edison ripped off some people in his time. Maybe some of the genius types utilize whatever is necessary to develop ideas whether theirs or someone elses. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[vidar]

Here is some about relation between the young Tesla and Edison.<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Tesla#United_States<br />Tesla might have learned his lesson about ’humor’ then.<br />

 

[qso1]

Interesting article, thanks for the link. I looked at the possibility that he may have been able to develop a rudimentary death ray of some kind that was perhaps too far ahead of its time assuming it actually existed.<br /><br />Kind of like the flying wing (XB-35 and YB-49) of the 1940s which was ahead of its time. The B-2 was built with the technology for flying wings finally being available. Maybe one day a Tesla based directed energy weapon will materialize. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[netarch]

<i>Maybe one day a Tesla based directed energy weapon will materialize.</i><br /><br />You mean like this ? <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> Ok, so it's not Tesla-based, but an energy weapon none the less. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Full-time cruising now!!! </div>

 

[qso1]

Agreed. And while it appears to be more or less a non directed energy weapon, its still a beam type weapon. It also appears its not yet operational but getting close and once operational, it will probably be the first beam weapon put into service. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[vidar]

On a second thought, energy is a main advantage for the electric car over the gasoline car.<br /><br />There is electricity available at any building and any road, gasoline is not.<br />Electricity can be converted from any source, gasoline can not.<br />Charged batteries could be swapped at any store, gasoline can not.<br />In short, electricity is way more cheap, rational and available than gas.<br /><br />Any person could charge his own reserve car battery/energy-source; no gasoline car owner can do that. <br />No wonder oil-suppliers fight such a development.<br />

 

[nexium]

Hi vidar: Those are all good points, but they need to be under-stated, not over-stated. It takes 400 hours to recharge a one megawatt-hour battery at 120 volts 20 amps average = 2.4 kilowatts. The higher voltages have about a dozen different plug types, and typically involve unpluging an appliance that will be needed before the the battery is even half charged. Admittedly 1/20 th megawatt-hour is enough for a tiny hybred electric car<br />It takes equipment not often available to convert firewood, or propane or wind or sunshine to electricity.<br />It is labor intensive to swap even 5 batteries weighing 50 pounds = 23 kilograms each. Also the swapped batteries will be of unequal $ value, often unknown to all parties concerned.<br />The batteries can cost more than gasoline if abuse leads to early replacement, and all types of batteries need tender loving care for long life.<br />Comparatively few of us understand the math needed to improvise charging opportunities safely for the person and the batteries. Developing flexable, but safe (and tamper proof) charging equipment is part of what is delaying battery powered cars and trucks. Neil

 

[vidar]

nexium<br /><br />The development and implementations have reach much longer than that.<br /><br />Here is what Teslamotors says:<br />http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/faqs.php<br /><br />How long does it take to recharge? <br />That depends on how far the battery has been discharged and what source is being used to charge the batteries. A full charge using the home system can be achieved in as little as 3.5 hours. <br /><br />How far can the Tesla Roadster drive between charges? <br />Range depends on driving style and conditions. On the EPA highway driving cycle we expect 250 miles on a charge.

 

[pizzaguy]

Nexium,<br /><br />You like to show us your mathematical skills.<br /><br />How 'bout you calculate the COST of recharging that battery at 11 cents a kWh? (Here, in Georgia, the first 900-something kWh's per month are 7 cents each, then any more than that are 11 cents a kWh.)<br /><br />Electric cars sound REAL EXSPENSIVE to me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1"><em>Note to Dr. Henry:  The testosterone shots are working!</em></font> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Here in NJ, winter it's 15c/kwh winter, now 20c/kwh summer <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[vidar]

MeteorWayne.<br />Yes, I certainly can see that it is need for writing to the pizzaguy about this.<br />Who wouldn’t?<br />Do you think Tesla could contribute somehow too?<br />

 

[MeteorWayne]

Listen, whatever works, I'll do. When the cost/benefit ratio works in my benefit, I will invest. Heck, even if there's a reasonable net loss in money, I'd pay more to encourage the industry.<br /><br />Tesla's been incorporeal for a long time. So HE can not contribute. However his ideas can, and I'm willing to listen to any ideas. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[vidar]

I have no share in Teslamotor, - and I won’t ever.<br />However, that technology could probably be realized decades ago.<br />Investing to early can cause big losses, - and realising that must be bitter.<br /><br />Somehow it don’t feel right, being stuck in dino-energy.<br />… or was it something modern as the Tehran Conference that sat us back?<br />

 

[nexium]

The lithium ion battery is apparently twice as good as the next best. It was very costly until about 2005, which is about when the Tesla roadster design began. The range would have been 125 miles, instead of 250 miles with a lesser battery which would have taken longer to recharge. Most other alternative technology also has problems that are delaying large scale implimentation. More incentave and research dollars will help. Neil

 

[nexium]

A few pay less than 11 cents per kilowatt hour. Most customers would have used the 900 kilowatt hours weather they charged an electric car or not, so the lower rate is almost irrelevent and/or cancelled by various sir charges, fees, tax etc. If the driver uses 100 kilowatt hours to recharge after an average 100 mile drive, that is 11 cents per mile which is about average fuel cost for gasoline cars in the GT class.<br />The lithium ion battery is very efficient. Someone claimed you get back 99% of the charging energy, so the Teala roadster will do better if you drive for ecconomy. It depends somewhat on the efficiency of the two speed transmission, how fast you drive up long steep hills, the recovery percentage of the regenative braking, use of cab heating and air conditioning. Likely the numbers suggested on the Tesla Motors site are optimistic. Neil

 

[nyarlathotep]

How 'bout you calculate the COST of recharging that battery at 11 cents a kWh? (Here, in Georgia, the first 900-something kWh's per month are 7 cents each, then any more than that are 11 cents a kWh.) <br /><br />I get my offpeak for 2.9c (converted to glorious currency of exorbitant privilege) per kWh.

 

[nyarlathotep]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I think it was Arthur C. Clarke that once said about the star wars program, that emptying a bucket of nail in orbit would also knock out a satellite. That’s much cheaper. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I wouldn't be surprised if the US had a couple of modified peacekeepers siloed with an extra boost stage and a fragmentation warhead.

 

[vidar]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p> I wouldn't be surprised if the US had a couple of modified peacekeepers siloed with an extra boost stage and a fragmentation warhead.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /><br />One main reason that the laser gun hasn’t been successful, is that the a high-power beam makes plasma of the air it passes through, that thereby distorts the beam.<br /><br />That obstacle is not present in space.<br />

 

[nyarlathotep]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>One main reason that the laser gun hasn’t been successful, is that the a high-power beam makes plasma of the air it passes through, that thereby distorts the beam.<br /><br />That obstacle is not present in space. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I still wouldn't be surprised if we had reagan-era peacekeepers. We simply haven't had diode pumped or deuterium fluoride lasers powerful enough to disable a hardened spysat until the last decade.

 

[pizzaguy]

nexium,<br /><br />WHile I agree that the lower rate is 'cancelled out' by normal household use (I only posted that to make clear our electric costs here), I must say: You let me down with that post!<br /><br />I am still waiting for my full-of-math nexium post! I challenged you once on your math and in the middle of my argument, I found your math to be correct, after all. I was HOPING you'd tackle this one, too.<br /><br />I suspect you didn't do so 'cause you see what I mean - the cost of recharging the car is much more than just driving a gas car - even at 25 mpg and $2.50 a gallon for gas.<br /><br />Electric cars cost too much - Prove me wrong!!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1"><em>Note to Dr. Henry:  The testosterone shots are working!</em></font> </div>