The Base on Deimos

[cavesofmars]

Sometime around 2030, hopefully sooner, the decision will be made to set up a base on Deimos--the outer moon of Mars. This base will constitute the preparatory first step to the construction of bases on Mars. Before the arrival of humans, small factories to generate water and oxygen will have landed along with some construction robots to support any needed modifications to the environment. One modification will be building an underground safety space in case of major radiation bursts from the sun.

After this is in place, humans will arrive in a large multi-story cylinder which will be the focus of activity on the moon. It is very possible that this will be a one-way trip for the humans. The first few years will be spent developing the overall base environment using an array of robots controlled by the humans using telepresence. While the humans will be able to move outside the cylinder in their spacesuits, most of the activity on the moon will be performed by the robots.

 

[Valcan]

Sometime around 2030, hopefully sooner, the decision will be made to set up a base on Deimos--the outer moon of Mars. This base will constitute the preparatory first step to the construction of bases on Mars. Before the arrival of humans, small factories to generate water and oxygen will have landed along with some construction robots to support any needed modifications to the environment. One modification will be building an underground safety space in case of major radiation bursts from the sun.

After this is in place, humans will arrive in a large multi-story cylinder which will be the focus of activity on the moon. It is very possible that this will be a one-way trip for the humans. The first few years will be spent developing the overall base environment using an array of robots controlled by the humans using telepresence. While the humans will be able to move outside the cylinder in their spacesuits, most of the activity on the moon will be performed by the robots.

Caves now there is a bunch of things i can definatly agree with. To me space suits are great but making a person spend so much time in one is exausting, dangerous and unnessesary. Performing most jobs threw telepresence in robots just makes more sense. You could have 1 person controlling an entire project (say excavating an area for a new hab dome or cave system.) from inside a well protected habitat like our predator drones. Suits are good for emergencies and for some places where a human presence is needed or where a robot is just unwanted.

And a base on Deimos or phobos or possibly both would make sense for the same reason having one in orbit here would make sense.

 

[samkent]

Sometime around 2030,

Uhhh We have waited 40 years since the flag planting on the Moon and now in less than 20 we’ll be setting up bases on Mars? Not going to happen.

You need to quit spinning stories. This is not a place to write short stories or books. If you need facts to support your story line then yes this is the correct place. But when it comes to publishing you need to go elsewhere.

Performing most jobs threw telepresence in robots just makes more sense.

We don’t do that here and we won’t do that there. Look to the ISS for an example. If they need to move a Soyuz from one dock to another they always FULLY man it. One small and I do mean small error and the entire station could be lost. They don’t have unattended robot manipulators in the operation room. When everything is on the line you will always have a human there to pull the plug.

 

[cavesofmars]

By 2030, the advances in technology over the previous two decades would be the equivalent of a century going back from 2010. This is what emerges from the exponential increase in the rate of growth of information technology. At the same time, the maturation of SSTO technology will provide humans with the ability to move large numbers of modules into low earth orbit where they can be assembled into a simple space ship capable of traveling to Deimos. The cost of this relative to the gnp of the nations in 2030 will not be that much more than the cost of the three Mars landers over the past decade.

Also, the vehicle described in the initial landing on Deimos may only be two or three times the size of the Mars prototype described by Robert Zubrin and his group. Plus, landing on Deimos with no atmosphere and minimal gravity will be a cakewalk compared with what it will take to land on Mars itself. Finally, if this is designed to be a one-way trip for the humans, there will be no costs required for return vehicles.

 

[Valcan]

Sometime around 2030,

Uhhh We have waited 40 years since the flag planting on the Moon and now in less than 20 we’ll be setting up bases on Mars? Not going to happen.

You need to quit spinning stories. This is not a place to write short stories or books. If you need facts to support your story line then yes this is the correct place. But when it comes to publishing you need to go elsewhere.

Performing most jobs threw telepresence in robots just makes more sense.

We don’t do that here and we won’t do that there. Look to the ISS for an example. If they need to move a Soyuz from one dock to another they always FULLY man it. One small and I do mean small error and the entire station could be lost. They don’t have unattended robot manipulators in the operation room. When everything is on the line you will always have a human there to pull the plug.

Im not talking about Surgery......im talking about moving earth on the planety mars or the moon. Or doing things in space with them. How often are plane crashes pilot error or some other such thing. Yes people need to be there to pull the plug but you dont need 3 guys driving 3 bulldozers on the moon or mars just one guy who monitors all those vehicles while they do there job to watch out for problems.

And how many unmanned cargo moduals are on the mission plan?

 

[cavesofmars]

During the two years after the first humans have landed on Deimos, the astronauts and their robot construction machines would have built a large underground cave that will become a huge warehouse and living facility for the next set of humans. At that time, multiple spaceships will come with supplies and materials to build the new facility. The new arrivals will land in their own cylindrical space craft which will be their home on Deimos until the underground facility is fully developed. At that time, all the humans will be able to leave their landers and take up residence in their new facility.

At this point, the team on Deimos will be ready to construct the first base on Mars. Multiple spaceships will land with large numbers of robot construction and assembler machines at the location planned for the first base. The team on Deimos will operate the robots using telepresence capabilities. It may well be that vacant lava tubes from an extinct volcano will serve as a useful site for the first underground facility there. The following years will be busy ones making the new facility a liveable environment for humans.

 

[cavesofmars]

Sometime six to eight years after the initial landing on Deimos, the construction of the base on Mars will be far enough along that the first humans will be able to go there. Deimos will function as a transit station with a reusable space ferry as the means of transporting the humans and their supplies to the base. The servicing and maintenance of the space ferry will all be done at the space port on Deimos. At the point that it is used to transport the first humans to Mars, it would have made the journey back and forth between Mars and Deimos many times to ensure that everything was working as designed.

Once a large enough human community was established at the base on Mars, they would take over any further expansion of the existing base and the building of new ones. By 2040 or thereabouts, humans would have established a foothold on Mars and the expansion of humanity into space would begin to take off.

 

[HopDavid]

Sometime around 2030, hopefully sooner, the decision will be made to set up a base on Deimos--the outer moon of Mars. This base will constitute the preparatory first step to the construction of bases on Mars. Before the arrival of humans, small factories to generate water and oxygen will have landed along with some construction robots to support any needed modifications to the environment. One modification will be building an underground safety space in case of major radiation bursts from the sun.

After this is in place, humans will arrive in a large multi-story cylinder which will be the focus of activity on the moon. It is very possible that this will be a one-way trip for the humans. The first few years will be spent developing the overall base environment using an array of robots controlled by the humans using telepresence. While the humans will be able to move outside the cylinder in their spacesuits, most of the activity on the moon will be performed by the robots.

Any reason you favor Deimos over Phobos?

 

[Beanze]

I think it's the name, it's just all that catchy

 

[SteveCNC]

I would think Phobos would be the better choice since it's bigger , is closer to mars , and has potential water ice under the surface . Although it does have Stickney crater , a pretty big divet which actually might make a semi protected place for a base plus closer to the ice . Might make a good place to fill up before landing on mars or the long ride home .

 

[HopDavid]

I would think Phobos would be the better choice since it's bigger , is closer to mars , and has potential water ice under the surface . Although it does have Stickney crater , a pretty big divet which actually might make a semi protected place for a base plus closer to the ice . Might make a good place to fill up before landing on mars or the long ride home .

I can think of a few advantages for Deimos. Takes a little less delta V to reach or leave. It's closer to Mars synchronous and therefore will be within line of sight of a given group teleoperated for longer periods.

Mars Express recently bathed Phobos in radar. I guess the data is presently being analyzed. Hopefully soon we'll know if Phobos' low density is due to voids or ices.

There a few folks who love the notion of putting a stalk on Ceres because of it's high angular velocity (about an 11 hour day if I remember right) and shallow gravity well. Well, Phobos has a shallower gravity well than Ceres and it has a less than 8 hour day. Those are the reasons I'm fired about a Phobos tether

Deimos is pretty close to Mars synchronous. And I expect Mars synchronous will eventually be a very useful orbit just as earth synchronous is today. Maybe Deimos will lend a hand in establishing Mars synchronous infra structure.

 

[SteveCNC]

I don't see communications to be an issue since at the point of having a base we would have already set up a satalite group in geo sync for that so it dosen't matter what time of day it is you always have communications . There is a lot of prep work that needs to be done on mars before a human steps foot on martian dirt . A lot needs to be known about the geology of the planet itself especially the landing site and surrounding area . To date none of our rovers have had the ability to detect seismic activity that I am aware of and so we still don't know a lot about mars . All of this needs to be done before we actually send people down to the surface . Besides that due to the thin atmosphere landing on mars is a bit harder than most places so a tether may be the best way down for humans . It's that or use engines full when coming in but your gonna need a lot of fuel for that plus I'm not sure if the normal nozzel design will work both ways . It seems like decending with engines on would cause some odd pressure zones and a lot of heat on the outside of the entire rocket hmmm not sure I like that idea .

 

[danhezee]

Sometime around 2030, hopefully sooner, the decision will be made to set up a base on Deimos--the outer moon of Mars. This base will constitute the preparatory first step to the construction of bases on Mars. Before the arrival of humans, small factories to generate water and oxygen will have landed along with some construction robots to support any needed modifications to the environment. One modification will be building an underground safety space in case of major radiation bursts from the sun.

After this is in place, humans will arrive in a large multi-story cylinder which will be the focus of activity on the moon. It is very possible that this will be a one-way trip for the humans. The first few years will be spent developing the overall base environment using an array of robots controlled by the humans using telepresence. While the humans will be able to move outside the cylinder in their spacesuits, most of the activity on the moon will be performed by the robots.

Any reason you favor Deimos over Phobos?

Phobos is one letter more than the word hobos. In the future, in order to preserve a strong wrong ethic, planners will refrain from making colonization plans on worlds deemed too risky, by name alone, to hinder productivity. Which also rules out the lesser known nojobtopia.

 

[cavesofmars]

Although I have suggested that Deimos may be the moon chosen for the first settlement, I would not rule out Phobos as an alternative. As noted above, Deimos has a more synchronized orbit and it is the outer moon. Although it is smaller, it is not that much smaller. We will have to learn more about the geology of both moons before making any final decision. My key point is that landing humans on Mars should wait until sufficient preparations have been made for a settlement using construction and assembler robots operated via telepresence by humans from a base of one of the moons.

Although a tether from Phobos may be used to land humans and supplies on Mars in the future, I suspect that the initial landings will use the rocket technology we know operated by advanced robots. The drawback to this will be the fuel requirements but one of the first factories to be set up on the two moons will be dedicated to making and storing the needed fuel.

 

[HopDavid]

Although I have suggested that Deimos may be the moon chosen for the first settlement, I would not rule out Phobos as an alternative. As noted above, Deimos has a more synchronized orbit and it is the outer moon. Although it is smaller, it is not that much smaller. We will have to learn more about the geology of both moons before making any final decision. My key point is that landing humans on Mars should wait until sufficient preparations have been made for a settlement using construction and assembler robots operated via telepresence by humans from a base of one of the moons.

Prolonged stays in micro G has bad health effects. That is one problem with humans on Phobos or Deimos teleoperating construction of Martian structures.

Although a tether from Phobos may be used to land humans and supplies on Mars in the future, I suspect that the initial landings will use the rocket technology we know operated by advanced robots. The drawback to this will be the fuel requirements but one of the first factories to be set up on the two moons will be dedicated to making and storing the needed fuel.

If these moons have volatile ices, I believe you're correct, propellent mines will be the first activity.

Mars express recently scanned Phobos with radar. Hopefully we'll know soon if Phobos has volatile ices.

 

[cavesofmars]

One major drawback for humans living on Deimos is the long-term health impact of a 0G environment. However, we will have had two additional decades to learn ways to mitigate these effects. In addition, medical technology will have undergone a revolution during that time. One possibility is to spend one's rest periods inside a machine that will provide artificial gravity. There may also be electrical muscle stimulation and bone density injections that will help. However, after four or five years, the deterioration may be impossible to fully prevent. This is why assignment to Deimos may be a final assignment for the selected astronauts. These may be seniors in their seventies or eighties who would be willing to accept such a fate in exchange for being the first settlers on a far away world.

 

[scottb50]

These may be seniors in their seventies or eighties who would be willing to accept such a fate in exchange for being the first settlers on a far away world.

I could see landing and assembling Modules to build a Station, but just putting that Station, in it's entirety into orbit is the first priority. The moons don't offer that much protection, and mining might be possible in a few years, but I don't see the priority. Send down Modules and robotic assembly robots and build a suitable habitat, landing area and other things needed before we can move in.

Tesla robots, multi-functional.

Take everything to LEO in whatever you can find, hundreds of pounds to multi-thousand. Assemble Modules in Orbit and outfit with material sent up in other Modules. Boost to Mars orbit with upper stage RL-10 engines and enter a elliptical orbit with atmospheric drag to lower orbit.

 

[cavesofmars]

The proposal to build a Mars Space Station which would orbit the planet and be the central source of control for the construction robots on the planet is the ideal solution, but it would delay the base preparation a decade or more. By landing a small habitat on Deimos and accepting the health problems of 0G, the base preparation on the planet could begin in the 2030 timeframe.

It may be that another nation other than America will try this first. That nation would be one that would have less of a concern about the long-term health effects on the astronauts.

America, on the other hand, is likely to have the most advanced construction robots as well as being the earliest to develop a working SSTO vehicle. Having another nation make it first into building a base on Mars would have big political repercussions in America and could produce an American Mars Space Station in the late 2030s.

 

[scottb50]

The proposal to build a Mars Space Station which would orbit the planet and be the central source of control for the construction robots on the planet is the ideal solution, but it would delay the base preparation a decade or more.

Iwould think you could equip Modules for final use or send up materials to outfit those that were used as tanks or for cargo. Hook them altogether and send them to Mars orbit. Once in orbit a minimal base could be built in a few weeks robotically, and landing could commence. It could be done well before 2020 if we wanted to.

 

[cavesofmars]

After so many responses where I'm told I'm too optimistic, I'm suprised to find that there really is someone out there who is even more optimistic than I am. The point you make is true. If we all had the will, a space station built from interlocking modules could be built in LEO and sent to orbit Mars using technology available today in the 2020 timeframe. Just as we can commit a 100 billion plus to our wars annually, with the will to do it, we could find the funds to make it happen.

But here is where we diverge. I perceive no political will of this kind today among any of the nations with respect to a space program. Twenty billion a year is about what we can expect from the US. This why I believe it will be entrepreneurs like Musk and Bigelow who will eventually make it happen. They will build on the technology developed in various military programs and whatever NASA is able to do along with the robot technology already under development worldwide. People like this always find cost-effective ways to realize their dreams.

 

[SteveCNC]

Well to be honest cavesofmars you are a bit optimistic but mostly because you discount the lack of drive or will to succeed that exists in our society as if it means nothing . While I can agree that it would be completely possible to do the things you want almost in your time frame but that would require dedication that this country does not have . Back in the 60s and early 70s the people in the US had a lot of pride in our country and I believe that was the true driving force behind Apollo and the moon landings . Once it became routine in public opinion the feelings behind it faded and the program was shut down , then the new thing to be proud of was the shuttles but when disaster struck that feeling seemed to change and I personally don't believe it has returned since . Most of the people that come here are proud of our achievements in space and still want it to continue but unfortunately we don't represent the majority . So we are stuck in slow motion when it comes to progress and that's the reality of it .

Luckily for us we have private ventures that are making things we can use to get to mars , although landing on the surface presents a difficulty we will need to develope a method to overcome . I really think a tether method at least down some distance will be the trick way to drop a human into a better landing position for the surface . But we probably won't be doing a tether from the moon but from the ship that takes them from earth .

Not sure if you saw my rough design in the other post but

or link to full size
that ship could drop a tether from the mid section and use the plasma drive during the drop to maintain speed/altitude . Plus some or all of the modules could be seperated and landed on one of the moons or it could just do a burn out to geo-sync and be the mars space station after it's done it's drop . All made from mostly already developed for space items , would only need to develope the interconnecting sections and a tether system with a lander .

 

[scottb50]

People like this always find cost-effective ways to realize their dreams.

I never said anything about NASA doing it. A publicly funded conglomerate that would gladly take outside financing was more the idea.

If you build a Module using three parts and any Module can dock to any other Module they could be pumped out. Connect Modules as needed.

 

[cavesofmars]

When we talk of a Mars expedition with a spacecraft with plasma drive, artificial gravity, and solar radiation protection, we are looking at extensive proof-of-concept testing. The ISS has provided many ways to test out various concepts but there are lots more out there that need to be explored. One example of this would be a self-contained biological lab to understand what is required for long-term survival of living organisms like fish in space. Another would be an agricultural lab to figure out what combination of plants would provide a balanced diet for the astronauts and what size module would be needed to supply each astronaut with their required amount of food. Finally, the technology of tethers and all the associated elements related to their use needs extensive research. This tech ranges from factories to make miles of nanotube wires to the devices that will climb up and down the tethers.

NASA will have to sponsor extensive research in areas like these before the entrepreneurs can step in with their plans for Mars expeditions and bases.