The Problems Superheroes Face

[a_lost_packet_]

... The very best of all the costumed superheros, and I will defend that position to the end!..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMEiMQesvLI[/youtube]

 

[StarRider1701]

I was using that as a stepping off point to discuss "Watchmen" -- that's basically the premise.

I'm a fan of costumed superhero stories, actually. My personal favorite is Batman. The very best of all the costumed superheros, and I will defend that position to the end!

I don't know anything about your Watchmen, and didn't know Dr. Who was a costumed superhero.

I too like the Batman. Unlike most other heroes, he wasn't "Super." He had no power except that which he gave himself plus all his cool Bat-gadgets. No, he would not stand much of a chance against anyone with real powers like Superman or Captain America. However, there is one other hero who has no physical Super power - DareDevil. His "power" only allows a blind man to see. Physically he and the Batman are just ordinary people who've trained themselves to be the best they can be! Batman vs DareDevil - THAT would be the fight worth watching!

 

[yevaud]

And the original Batman was very different than he is portrayed now, too. In his beginnings, he had no little buddy, no bat-car, no utility belt, no bat-cave, none of it. His weapons were his fists, and a pair of 45's he wore. One very bad man indeed.

 

[CalliArcale]

My personal favorite is Batman. The very best of all the costumed superheros, and I will defend that position to the end!

Well, this raises the perennial question: if Batman and Superman got into a fight, who do you suppose would win? And who'd limp away with his leathery wings tucked between his legs?

Been done! "Dark Knight Returns", a graphic novel by Frank Miller and Alan Moore, culminates in a knock-down battle-to-the-end fight between Batman and Superman. Basically, Batman's come out of retirement and has become increasingly inconvenient for the government, which had persuaded all of the costumed superheros to either sign up with the them or retire. (Kind of similar premise to "Watchmen", only in the DC universe.) Superman of course signed up with the government, Boy Scout that he is, and the president sends him to take Batman down, figuring he's the only one who can realistically achieve it without massive collateral damage.

It's *good*. Batman knows Superman is coming for him, so he takes some time to prepare. It's pretty good. I won't spoil it by saying who wins. :ugeek:

 

[CalliArcale]

Doctor Who isn't a costumed superhero; that's why he doesn't count as my favorite costumed superhero.

"Watchmen" was a graphic novel by Alan Moore that came out in the 80s. It was set in a dystopian alternate reality, where due to the intervention of superheros (particularly the godlike Dr Manhattan), the US defeated North Vietnam, drastically altering the power balance of the Cold War. The Mutually Assured Destruction doctrine doesn't work when Dr Manhattan is working for the Americans; the Russians do not dare move against the US, even as open war approaches in Afghanistan (which is playing out far more overtly in this alternate world than it did in the real one). Superheros are real in this alternate world, and not just Dr Manhattan. Most are costumed vigilantes without any superpowers besides a different perspective on ethics and possibly a large bank account. During a series of riots in the 70s, a group of costumed vigilantes called the Watchmen was called upon to help quell the violence during a police strike. After that, the Keene Act was passed into law, thanking them for their service and forbidding them from doing it again. (Exceptions were made for those who agreed to serve the country: Dr Manhattan and the Comedian.)

As the story opens, we meet one vigilante who refused retirement: Rorshach, an anti-hero whose methods are brutal and whose perception of humanity is incredibly bleak. He has found the body of a man pushed out the window of a high-rise, and he is curious to know more. He finds out that this man was actually his former colleague, the Comedian, who has been working essentially as a CIA assassin. He was very fit, very much aware of his surroundings, and yet someone managed to kill him. Rorshach begins to investigate, and realizes that the killer knew who he was. He begins to suspect a conspiracy to kill costumed heros, or "masks". The investigation leads to some very unexpected places.

We find that these superheros are not generally very savory people. Rorshach is terrifying, with the mentality of a serial killer and a black-and-white morality that judges almost everyone to be lacking. The Comedian, dead at the beginning of the movie, was a serial rapist who regarded life itself as one big joke. Silk Spectre II takes after her mother, and despite a strongly avowed feminism, clearly gets a sexual thrill from costumed vigilantism. So does Nite Owl II, who is a rather unremarkable person in real life who seems to have no focus in life without the vigilantism. His character is a bit of a play on Batman, in that he's a rich gadget-geek, but he's far more of a boy scout. Dr Manhattan has become so detached from humanity that he completely forgets that people care about things; in one scene, his girlfriend almost dies because he momentarily forgot that she would need air to breathe when they visit Mars. Ozymandias is pompous and arrogant, happy to reveal his identity to the world because it allows him to mass-market it on everything from action figures to designer fragrances.

We also see a very dark side to the rest of humanity, and the book forces you to look at that and ask some serious questions about mankind -- both the good and the bad.

It was made into a movie recently, and the movie was very faithful to the book, though it amped up the violence (which is impressive considering how visceral the book is) and also tweaked a few things. For instance, the entire subplot with the comic book artist designing a hideous tentacled monster is eliminated, and the endgame has a simpler bogeyman than the one in the book. But it's faithful enough that you can watch it as a shorter version of the book. Book is better, though. Not exactly light reading, but it's a good book. It was very influential, too, so if one is interested in comic books as literature, it's a must-read.

 

[lampblack]

My personal favorite is Batman. The very best of all the costumed superheros, and I will defend that position to the end!

Well, this raises the perennial question: if Batman and Superman got into a fight, who do you suppose would win? And who'd limp away with his leathery wings tucked between his legs?

Been done! "Dark Knight Returns", a graphic novel by Frank Miller and Alan Moore...

One might infer from your description who wins this epic battle, as any Boy Scout will tell ya that being prepared is a good thing. I'm off to Amazon now to see for myself.