"The Shuttle can't go to the Moon"

[jatslo]

Biosphere 2 Center is Columbia University's 250-acre western campus devoted to deepening the understanding of earth systems vital to the policies and decisions that will affect Earth's future. Equipped with a 3.1 acre, glass-enclosed research laboratory, and offering academic programs in earth systems for high school, undergraduate and graduate students as well as educational programs for 180,000 annual visitors and local school children, Biosphere 2 continues its mission to foster informed leadership and intelligent stewardship of the planet.<br /><br />Biosphere 2, the fascinating atmosphere glass-enclosed mesocosm in the Arizona desert, explores the bounds and frontiers of the new field of ecological engineering. This project set out to construct ecosystems or biomes, not monocultures, in a heavily subsidized environment, save for the sun, 50% of which did penetrate the glass, and the soil that was trucked in. Pumps were needed for the hydrologic cycle, blowers for atmospheric movement, and even a 'lung' to relieve the pressure that builds up in the glass enclosed system. More than 10 MW of electrical power generating capacity stands nearby. Ecosystems did flourish in the various biomes, never turning out exactly as they had been planned, but always giving information that provides insight on their true analogs in nature.<br /><br />--- http://www.yenra.com/biosphere-arizona/<br /><br />If we are to construct habitable biospheres on “The Earth, The Moon, Then Mars…”, we already have a pretty good start figuring it out with the above project.<br /><br />In my opinion, this science is paramount to the success of colonizing other planetary bodies. It sounds as if they do not have a handle on soil production, or sunlight. <br /><br />What do you think?<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<a /><br />

 

[jatslo]

They give Iraq 100-Billion a year, yet they can't find a way to fund NASA. Go Figure! You know that congress is going to cut NASA's budget even futher, right?<br /><br />We need to pool up and help fund " The Earth, The Moon, Then Mars..." Mission successes.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[jatslo]

<b>Robbins TBM breaks world records </b><br /><br /> The high power Robbins Tunnel Boring Machine (TBM) on the Little Calumet Leg tunnel in south suburban Chicago, USA is achieving excellent performance. The TBM is driving a 5.56 m diameter Combined Sewer Overflow (CSO) tunnel through limestone rock with a compressive strength of between 83-96 MPa. The tunnel will be lined and have a finished diameter of 4.9 m. Although early into its drive, the machine has already broken world records for a hard rock machine of its size for best advance in a single eight hour shift – 45.75 m, best advance in a day – 116.7 m and best advance in a week at 474.7 m. It has also broken the record for most rock excavated in 24 hours at 2,836.55 cu m.<br /> <br /><br />The Little Calumet Leg tunnel is the final section in the MWRDGC’s Tunnel and Reservoir Plan (TARP) Phase 1 – which has now been under construction for around 30 years and has involved the driving of some 175 km of deep CSO tunnels.<br /><br /> <br /><br />The Robbins TBM - Model 1410-251-2 - has seven 335.6 kW motors driving the cutter head, which is fitted with thirty-nine Robbins wedgelock 19 inch (483 mm) cutters, but mounted on a typical 17 inch cutter pattern. The system was anticipated to perform well in the conditions anticipated, and is already meeting the contractor’s best expectations.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Robbins has provided, not only the TBM on this tunnel, but also the complete back-up and conveyor systems for getting the broken rock out of the tunnel – an essential link in enabling the TBM to achieve its record breaking advances. This back up includes the extensible main conveyor, an S-type vertical conveyor in the 60 m deep main shaft, and the surface conveyor and stacker for distributing the broken rock.<br /><br />I heard the drill that was used to build the eurotunnel is being auctioned off on Ebay. Wouldn't it be cool to get one of these on either the Moon, and/or Mars?<br /><br />They are long and skinny like

 

[scottb50]

Exactly the technology needed to build Nuclear power plants deep underground. Use the power produced to hydrolize water producing electricity and Hydrogen. <br /><br />We can change tomorrow and we can phase in. Any car, stove, whatever that uses hydrocarbons, with some modifications could work, for a while. Your 55 Chevy could be modified to use Hydrogen, but gas would still be around. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jatslo]

The European Space Agency has given the green light for the MARSIS radar on board its Mars Express spacecraft to be deployed during the first week of May. Assuming that this operation is successful, the radar will finally start the search for subsurface water reservoirs and studies of the Martian ionosphere.<br /><br />--- http://www.space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html<br /><br />This is a critical first step, if we are planning on drilling for water and /or hydrocarbons on Mars, but let’s not let that stop us. There is plenty of water at the poles.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br /><br />The DAME (Drilling Automation for Mars Exploration) project was organized by a team from NASA Ames and Honeybee Robotics. The full-scale Mars-prototype deep drill was tested this season under field conditions at a high-fidelity Mars-analog site within Haughton Crater. The Mars-1 HumVee Rover served as a drilling platform for the first drill site.<br /><br /> http://www.space.com/adastra/adastra_haughton_050208.html<br /><br /> Any extraterrestrial base must first be successfully tested here, and Devon Island is a good desolate place; The Earth’s Oceans would be another. We will not have the luxury of working only in the summer months; the habitat must be running 24/7, regardless of the environment. How cold do you think it will be on The Moon, and on Mars? It gets pretty hot on the moon at times.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br /><br />

 

[jatslo]

" Exactly the technology needed to build Nuclear power plants deep underground. "<br /><br />Why do the power plants need to be underground?<br /><br />I thought by tunneling down, blasting out a cavern, slapping an airlock on the enterence would solve the problems associated with the extreme exposures of the environment. For example, a rock barrier would shield workers from harmful and deadly particles, and a rock barrier will lessen the need to build structures. A cavern can contain good particles under pressure, as in a biosphere 4-miles below the surface.<br /><br />I was thinking that the workers would work on the surface, and live underground.<br /><br />When the Army Core of Engineers built the Alaskan highway through Canada, they used tents and sleeping bags. Building roads, tunnels, launch pads, etc on the Moon and Mars will utilize the same approach; however, tents will be electrically charged emptied cargo containers, and the sleeping bags will be their space suits.<br /><br />Basically, we will be camping out until the actual work on the base is complete.<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[scottb50]

They need to be underground for two reasons. Most people are afraid of anything Nuclear and oppose it out of hand. Locating it where it is safe, forever, no matter what would allow rapid and low cost deployment.<br /><br />Use technology such as this thread is about and you could construct a suitable facility in a rather short time, mass produce reactors and simply add more reactors by excavating more areas.<br /><br />Another benefit would be storing all of the produced waste on site, eliminating the need for National Repositories and such. <br /><br />Four miles seems a little much though, I was thinking nine to 1200 hundred feet depending on geology. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jatslo]

" Four miles seems a little much though, I was thinking nine to 1200 hundred feet depending on geology. "<br /><br />I do a lot of Gold Mining in my spare time. With hard rock mining, shafts can reach miles down. Earth's thermal properties heat the deeper tunnels, so I am guessing that if we dig deep enough, we can tap into the thermal dynamics of planetary bodies.<br /><br />That might not be required, or possible, if we are talking about the Moon, because the Moon does not have a liquid core that generates heat.<br /><br />I am not sure how much rock is required to act as shielding to block harmful particles.<br /><br />VIP nuclear fallout bunkers constructed as biospheres would suffice.<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[nacnud]

Just uses meltdown proof pebble bed reactors and save all that drilling.

 

[jatslo]

BEIJING, (AFP) - China plans to develop a revolutionary, "pebble-bed" nuclear reactor which would be both meltdown- and proliferation-proof, and come on stream in five years time, the Financial Times reported. <br /><br />A Chinese energy consortium has chosen the city of Weihai in northeastern Shandong province to build the 195-megawatt gas-cooled power plant, the newspaper said, citing an unnamed official representing the consortium.<br /><br />The plant would be the first radically new reactor design for decades, putting China at the forefront in nuclear energy research that offers a "meltdown-proof" alternative to conventional nuclear power stations, it said.<br /><br />"Pebble bed" reactors are fueled by thousands of small graphite balls with minute uranium cores which provide the fuel for the nuclear reaction.<br /><br /> http://au.news.yahoo.com/050208/19/syrq.html<br />

 

[nacnud]

Yep I know <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> thanks. Still no word on a politicaly acceptable solution to the long term storage of the waste thought.

 

[jatslo]

<i>"We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of preeminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new, terrifying theater of war."<br /><br />--- President John F. Kenedy</i><br />

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

JFK must've had one of the best speech writers of all time!<br />Its so amazing that those words were spot on. Its just a shame that space has become more important for war than peace these days, just think where we would be now if all that DOD money was used for peacefull purposes! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

If the waste is stored on site and the entire plant is far enough underground to not be a problem for milleniums why would that not be acceptable.<br /><br />Raw Uranium ore in and nothing out except clean water and electricity. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jatslo]

“ <i>I-2769. Color-coded topography and shaded relief maps of the lunar hemispheres. Prepared for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. 2002. Three sheets. Scale 1:10,000,000 (1 mm = 10 km). All sheets 42 by 32 inches (in color).<br /><br />--- http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/Teams/Geomatics/photogrammetry/topography_lunar.html</i> “<br /><br />Lunar topography maps are essential to the construction of a “ The Earth, The Moon, Then Mars…” base on the Earth’s moon. If we drill biosphere habitats, it would make more since to drill horizontally rather than vertically.<br /><br />A staging area, or base camp might be better suited in a flat area opposite a mountain. <br /><br />Are there any flat areas next to mountains?<br /><br />I am thinking that we can hollow out a center of a lunar mountain, and our work surface would be comprised of either a high flat plain, or a large flat crater. We could drill from each side of the mountain and meet up in the center. Like they did when they constructed the euro-tunnel. However, if will drilled from both sides of the lunar mountain, we would need flat areas on both sides.<br /><br />At the point where the tunnels converge is where we begin hollowing out a cavern. The materials excavated can be utilized on the lunar surface to build observatories, launch pads, power plants, roads, solar panels, etc.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo <br /><br /> <br />

 

[jatslo]

" <i>Moon's south pole region is overseen by Malapert Mountain, now viewed as ideal spot to kickstart lunar utilization efforts. Credit: Naval Research Laboratory/U.S. Department of Defense. </i> "<br /><br />--- http://www.space.com/

 

[jatslo]

I am looking for a more detailed topography map of the "Malapert Mountain" region located on the Moon's South Pole. Something I can zoom in on and circumnavigate. Nay help obtaining maps will be greatly appreciated.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[jatslo]

For the rocord, I did find an answer to my questions regarding better topography maps of the " Malapert Mountain, Earth Moon's South Pole..." at the following thread:<br /><br />--- "Malapert Mountain" Earth's Moon South Pole...<br /><br />I'm thinking of purchasing the <i>Lunar Map Pro w/3D Terrain Model</i> for the heck of it, and I was wondering if anyone would have time to write some reviews based on their personal experiences with this software, if any.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[jatslo]

“ <i>The Robbins Company has been engaged in the design and manufacture of tunneling and mining equipment since 1951. Since then, Robbins TBMs have bored over 3,500 km of tunnel on more than 700 projects worldwide with machines ranging in size from 2.0m diameter to 11.87m diameter.</i> “<br /><br />--- http://robbinstbm.com/TBMs/tbms.html<br /><br />I wonder how many trips it would take to shuttle the above equipment to the "Malapert Mountain" Earth's Moon South Pole... In addition, what it would take to assemble it on the Moon’s surface. What other additional equipment would we need?<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[jatslo]

I have contacted "The Robins Company", and hopefully they will respond on this board. If they e-mail, I will post the e-mail here manually.<br /><br />The following is the e-mail I sent:<br /><br /><i><br />Hello HomeL@robbinstbm.com,<br /><br />We are having an discussion about drilling at "Malapert Mountain". We think your drilling technology will work great for drilling into Earth's moon, and then Mars...<br /><br />Basically, we want to drill from both sides of "Malapert Mountain" and link up in the middle.<br />Were going to need air locks on the entrances, and possibly smaller holes to vent trapped gases, and/or to pressurize a chamber.<br />We want a biosphere in the mountain. Can you do this?<br /><br />We think the bedrock will protect are workers from lethal radiation, most meteors, and serve well for a biosphere. In addition, we want to use the material that is excavated for structures on the surface, i.e. Observatories, Launch Pads, Plants for manufacturing energy, etc.<br /><br />We invite you , or a representative of your company to the following board.<br /><br />http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=135927&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=7&o=0&fpart=21 <br /><br />Thank You,<br /><br />Jatslo! Marketing Specialists<br />http://jatslo.com/<br /><br /></i>

 

[nacnud]

jatslo<br /><br />Did you read 'The Rocket Company' when it was still on the Hobby Space website? It has been taken down now as it has been pubished. I has some interesting ideas about tunneling on the moon, as well as lots of information about launch vehicles in general. If you can get hold of an online copy it is well worth reading.<br /><br />More details here

 

[jatslo]

I checked it out briefly, and will spend more time their when I have more time.<br /><br />I was curious about what the author intends to use the proceeds from the book for. Books, shirts, flags, are all good marketing media. For example, we could have a telethon, and sale $.50 tee shirts for $25. Then use the proceeds to get The Robins Drill into orbit.<br /><br />What are other ways that we could drum up pocket change? Lance Armstrong is making a lot of money selling bracelets, and then utilizing the money for cancer.<br /><br />Maybe we could get people to buy Moon Rocks?<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[jatslo]

I am going to contact that Arizona Biosphere and ask them if they would be willing to help get the darn biosphere working on the Moon.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[jatslo]

The following is a copy of the e-mail that I just now sent to the Arizona Biosphere edu campus:<br /><br /><i><br />Hello kimi.manning@cbre.com, <br /><br />We are having an discussion about drilling abiosphere at "Malapert Mountain". We think your biosphere technology will work great for habitats for the Earth's moon, and then Mars... <br /><br />Basically, we want to drill from both sides of "Malapert Mountain" and link up in the middle. <br />Were going to need air locks on the entrances, and possibly smaller holes to vent trapped gases, and/or to pressurize a chamber. <br />We want a biosphere in the mountain. Can you do this? <br /><br />We think the bedrock will protect are workers from lethal radiation, most meteors, and serve well for a biosphere. In addition, we want to use the material that is excavated for structures on the surface, i.e. Observatories, Launch Pads, Plants for manufacturing energy, etc. <br /><br />We invite you , or a representative of your company to the following board. <br /><br />http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=135927&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=7&o=0&fpart=21 <br /><br />Thank You, <br /><br />Jatslo! Marketing Specialists<br />http://jatslo.com/<br /></i>

 

[jatslo]

You stated that the Moon has plenty of Oxygen readily available for extraction, but what about Hydrogen? The reason that I am asking is because a byproduct of burning hydrogen is water. For example, we could burn hydrogen to extract both water and electricity for a biosphere.<br /><br />I’ll do some research, in the event that nobody can answer my question.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo <br />