"The Shuttle can't go to the Moon"

[jatslo]

" The Momentum-Exchange/Electrodynamic-Reboost (MXER) Tether System could pick payloads up from a reusable launch vehicle in low Earth orbit and toss them to geosynchronous orbit. This idea could act as a Hypersonic Airplane Space Tether Orbital Launch system, or be utilized to handle other launch systems other than hypersonic airplanes. CREDIT: Tethers Unlimited, Inc. "<br /><br />" The Momentum-Exchange/Electrodynamic-Reboost (MXER) Tether System could pick payloads up from a reusable launch vehicle "<br /><br />Electro-charged stadium sized balloons with a 4000lb cargo containers, (payloads) are reusable launch vehicles.<br /><br />" low Earth orbit and toss them to geosynchronous orbit. "<br /><br />The charged stadium-sized ballons are in space.<br />See the following:<br /><br />" The balloon is made of thin polyethylene material, about the same thickness as Saran Wrap. It soared to 23.7 miles (38,100 meters).<br /><br />To pack the weight of the 4,000-pound detection facility, a huge balloon was needed. It is bigger than a football field -- more than 450 feet (137 meters) wide.<br /><br />Officials said the test went well and longer flights with more robust science experiments will be planned. " <br /><br />http://www.livescience.com/technology/050128_balloon_record.html<br /> <br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[jatslo]

The balloons will utilize both the Earth's magnetic field and the Earth's gravity to navigate to equatorial rendezvous point in space.<br /><br />Where something like a tether is use to apply momentum to the containers so they the containers will not fall back to Earth when detached from the balloons.<br /><br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[nacnud]

Momentum exchange rotating tethers are a great prospect for highly efficient future transport systems, especially if they could capture payloads from suborbital craft.<br /><br />But that is a big IF.<br /><br />Docking a spinning tether with a suborbital craft is a daunting prospect but perhaps technology adapted from kinetic kill vehicles from the anti-ballistic missile program could be used. However that technology is currently very expensive and secret.<br /><br />I don't think that balloons could use electrostatic to push against the Earths magnetic field but perhaps they could use electrostatics to create an ion engine like the Ascender from JP aerospace.<br /><br />A tether system would be useful in replacing the CEV/constellation approach with a near propellant-less transport system between fixed points. However the initial exploration probably is more cheaply done with a CEV concept.<br /><br />Here is an interesting paper on tethers.<br />

 

[jatslo]

" I don't think that balloons could use electrostatic to push against the Earths magnetic field "<br /><br />The electromagnetic field (EMF) is composed of two related vectorial fields, the electric field and the magnetic field. This means that the vectors (E and B) that characterize the field each have a value defined at each point of space and time. If only E, the electric field, is nonzero and is constant in time, the field is said to be an electrostatic field.<br /><br />E and B are linked by Maxwell's equations, and electromagnetic fields can be explained with a quantum basis by quantum electrodynamics.<br /><br /><b>The field as a stream of moving photons</b><br /><br />“ An alternative interpretation would be that the field is not actually a velocity field, but a flux density field of photonic fluid, which is constantly moving at the same speed: the speed of light, independent of the speed of the observer (the charged object). Photonic fluid never changes speed but can change net direction and the intensity of its net movement in that direction. “<br /><br />--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_field<br /><br />This same technology could be applied as a shielding for our ships and astronauts when they leave the safety of Earth’s magnetic field. The electrostatic field will block harmful and lethal particals that hamper biomechanical and electromechanical hardware.<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[nacnud]

I meant that the equipment require to generate a sufficient field to push against the Earths B field is probably too heavy and large for a balloon, it would be better to use a different technology to get the altitude and speed to rendezvous with a momentum exchange tether.<br /> <br />However it might be possible if the power supply was moved from the balloon to some sort of ground station, but I am very sceptical.<br />

 

[jatslo]

"sufficient field to push against the Earths B field is probably too heavy"<br /><br />I guess, the charge would depend on a lot of factors, i.e. velocity, trajectory, etc.. The hydrogen or helium would handle lift, and the electromagnetic field and gravity would be used for navigation.<br /><br />Sounds like a cheaper alternative for shuttling cargo containers to and fro.<br /><br />The following two things would have be applied in order to navigate:<br /><br />1. Expand and contract the gasses for loft.<br /><br />2. Regulate the electrostatic field, rather than keep the charge constant, but I am not sure this is practical since we would be snagging a moving object with a tether net, or something like it.<br /><br />In addition, I do not think the charge would have to be very significant for navigating, since Earth’s electromagnetism can be classified as wind, solar wind, electromagnetic wind…<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[jatslo]

I found the following three technologies on Northrop’s web site. Realistically, this is the preferred method of propulsion with most individuals, and if you’re thinking in the near term, I will tend to agree with the majority; however, I like to keep an open mind. <br /><br /><b>Secondary</b><br /><br />Northrop Grumman is developing an 870-lbf liquid oxygen/ethanol Reaction Control System (RCS) thruster for use as on-orbit propulsion to maneuver second-generation launch and space transportation vehicles during payload deployment and docking.<br /><br />--- http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/capabilities/Content.cfm?ContentID=75<br /><br /><b>Secondary</b><br /><br />Northrop Grumman is developing a 1000-lbf liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen Reaction Control System (RCS) thruster for use as on-orbit propulsion to maneuver second-generation launch and space transportation vehicles during payload deployment and docking.<br /><br />--- http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/capabilities/Content.cfm?ContentID=76<br /><br /><b>Primary</b><br /><br />Northrop Grumman is developing the TR107 main engine for NASA’s SLI to provide primary propulsion for the Earth-to-orbit stage of future reusable launch vehicles.<br /><br />--- http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/capabilities/Content.cfm?ContentID=77<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br /><br />

 

[nacnud]

Unfortunately the Space Launch Initiative was cancelled and became the Orbital Space Plane which was cancelled to become the Crew Exploration Vehicle which so far hasn't been cancelled, yet.

 

[jatslo]

“Our new lunar transportation system utilizes a unique architecture that will establish the equivalent of a two-way highway between the Earth and the Moon,” Kistler told SPACE.com. “Our plans include raising private capital to develop, build, flight test, and operate this Earth-Moon highway for the benefit of the country and the benefit of our investors.”<br /><br />--- http://www.space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html<br /><br />I will be the first to invest private capital, once NASA, and the White House facilitate the transferring of funds to the private sectors.<br /><br />This is a great vision,<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[jatslo]

" the Crew Exploration Vehicle which so far hasn't been cancelled, yet "<br /><br />If it fails, it will be because we depend too much on the taxpayers to fund it.<br /><br />It is critical that we get the private sector involved, and I am determined to help in any way that I can.<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[nacnud]

jatslo, have you seen the Artemis Project, lots of interesting ideas there.

 

[jatslo]

Nothing grabbed me right away, but I do like those space.com news feeds.<br /><br />Where do I signup for the free feeds?<br /><br />I read space news daily, and its easier to do from my site, or at least when I am working on my site ;o)<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br /><br />---Jatslo

 

[davp99]

It's Good to see a, presumably young man, Interested in the Space Field...But before you could seriously Involve Others to Your "Space Company", you Really Need to Study Up......and don't be afraid to ask Questions, there's a Wealth of Experience here..Hope you enjoy yourself ... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="4">Dave..</font> </div>

 

[jatslo]

It's Good to see a, presumably young man, Interested in the Space Field...But before you could seriously Involve Others to Your "Space Company", you Really Need to Study Up......and don't be afraid to ask Questions, there's a Wealth of Experience here..Hope you enjoy yourself ... <br /><br /><font color="”yellow”">” a, presumably young man ”</font><br /><br />I’m not a young man; I’m closer to middle aged.<br /><br /><font color="”yellow”"> “ Involve Others to Your "Space Company ” </font><br /><br />I am not starting a space company; I am trying to rally the willing, because I know that there is power in numbers.<br /><br /><font color="”yellow”">” don't be afraid to ask Questions, there's a Wealth of Experience here ”</font><br /><br />I am not afraid to state my opinion, or ask questions, and I know there is a wealth of experience at Space.com. I also, know that Space.com is well connected in this industry, and much more.<br /><br />My experience is marketing, gorilla marking, e marketing etc. The best way to market something is by “ Word of Mouth “. <br /><br />Here is a question for you: How can we, meaning you and me, start a movement, rally the people, focus on one objective, with each subordinating personal prominence to the efficiency of the entire project?<br /><br />That is not necessarily a very good statement, or slogan.<br /><br />When I have more time I will write a “ Mission Statement “ and “ Call to Action ”.<br />The slogan I am using on my web site appears to working, so I probably will not be tweaking that too much.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[nacnud]

I think to get the feeds from space.com you need a RSS (really simple syndication) reader. I've had a look on http://sourceforge.net/ and found what seems to be the best RSS reader on there, called RSSowl http://www.rssowl.org/. It is free open source software so should be safe to use. Now I've not tried this myself yet, but I will do soon. Have a try and see how it works.

 

[jatslo]

But while some officials here feel that the "stars are aligning" to proceed, there is also palpable concern that political support and budgets to sustain the effort will fall short, thus slow down and jeopardize the enterprise.<br /><br />Feeding frenzy<br />Outgoing NASA Administrator, Sean O’Keefe, told attendees that next week’s release of the space agency’s new budget will once again show the marks of a White House keen to financially fuel the space exploration vision, he said.<br /><br />"The really bad news is that NASA will be among the very few agencies with an increase," O’Keefe said. He warned of a "feeding frenzy" by those trying to gouge the healthy NASA budget to pay for other programs.<br /><br />O’Keefe underscored other challenges ahead, noting that a "new frame of mind" is required at NASA to succeed in the years to come.<br /><br />The NASA community and the yet-to-be-announced incoming space agency chief need to take immediate first steps in moving out on the strategic direction that President Bush has outlined, he said....<br /><br />--- http://www.space.com/news/exploration_orlando_050201.html<br /><br />I have serious concerns about funding for the President's vision, and feel that it will lose steam, if we fail to getting private funding involved. We can do this!!!<br /><br /><br />Will you help me rally the willing?<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[nacnud]

There is also a RSS reader extension for firefox here<br /><br />/off topic

 

[jatslo]

Well you help promote private funding via your site?<br />Will you team up with me?<br /><br />I am sending potential leads to:<br /><br />http://uplink.space.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=139236&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0<br /><br />I am willing to bet that I am sending between 50 - 100 unique vistors to this thread daily. I am only one person and I need your help.<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/: Jatslo

 

[nacnud]

Er I don't have a website, although I know HTLM CSS PERL etc. I haven't bothered to write my own or find a place to host it. I'll continue to post interesing links but I doubt I want to do more.<br /><br />Another interesting link for you http://www.projectconstellation.us/news/<br /><br />/even further off topic

 

[jatslo]

“ Today, a trip to the outer solar system relies on five to 10 minutes of burning chemicals and months or years of coasting, nuclear propulsion holds the promise of faster, more direct, more experiment-packed missions to places where sunlight is too feeble to power spacecraft. Indeed, some say that manned missions to Mars and beyond are unthinkable without nuclear propulsion. “<br /><br />http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0228/p14s01-stss.html<br /><br />If this is the best near term solution, then I am in favor.<br /><br />--- http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[jatslo]

Both the White and NASA should facilate... For example, The Red Cross... i.e. encourage individuals to contribute...<br /><br />Why not start an "The Earth, The Moon, Then Mars" fund? The White House could build a commission who's responsibility will involve the solicitation of funds.<br /><br />The incentive would be tax write off, personal satisfaction, and who knows maybe we can factor in a return on investment, (ROI) program.<br /><br />The private sector can not do this without the taxpayer either. It has to be a combined effort, that includes international help as well.<br /><br />We all have to work together.<br /><br />I say we join forces and stir up a hornets nest right here, right now.<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

jatslo, I don't mean to sound rude, I can't help it <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />But your website is really bad. Lose all those ads! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

<b>Earth and Moon as Viewed from Mars</b><br /><br />--- http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=15293<br /><br />The above link contains a picture of the Earth, the Moon, from Mars, which places a new perspective on things. Wouldn't it be cool to see a galactic highway between The Earth, The Moon, and Mars...<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo

 

[jatslo]

“Why do we want to go to the Moon and what do we want to get done there? ”<br /><br />--- http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=83667&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=7&o=0&fpart=<br /><br />The following is a response to the above thread:<br /><br />Every 26-million years, something catastrophic happens that is responsible for mass-extinctions. The last mass-extinction happened roughly 26-million years ago.<br /><br />It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when will humankind face extinction. We already know that the Earth’s Sun will swell to a red giant and fry the Earth’s atmosphere.<br /><br />Our very survival depends on our ability to colonize space.<br /><br />That tsunami in Asia should be a wake up call. Billions of people can die in a very short period time, and without warning.<br /><br />We need to know how to survive in extreme environments, and maybe this means that we are fed intravenously, just to name one possibility.<br /><br />If we keep waiting for a smoking gun, it will be too late!<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br />

 

[jatslo]

" The extended human presence on the Moon will enable astronauts to develop new technologies and harness the Moon's abundant resources to allow manned exploration of more challenging environments. An extended human presence on the Moon could reduce the costs of further exploration, since lunar-based spacecraft could escape the Moon's lower gravity using less energy at less cost than Earth-based vehicles. The experience and knowledge gained on the Moon will serve as a foundation for human missions beyond the Moon, beginning with Mars. "<br /><br />" Bush will challenge wary members of the U.S. Congress from both his Republican Party and Democrats in the minority to work together. "<br /><br />--- http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=US&cat=Bush_Administration<br /><br />I really hope the President touches upon his new vision for NASA in the State of The Union Speech tonight.<br /><br />Too bad I have class tonight, I really wanted to listen to his speech. Anyway, I will keep my fingers crossed.<br /><br />It would be nice to hear " The Earth, The Moon, Then Mars " in his speech.<br /><br />http://jatslo.com/ : Jatslo<br /><br />