Tremendous fireball - any re-entry activity?

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A

adrenalynn

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<p>Hi All, long time no chat!&nbsp; Of course, it would be an observation that brought me back.</p><p>&nbsp;First let me note that yes, I checked aero.org and heaven's above ;)&nbsp; My space-track account doesn't seem to work anymore and they require a 1-2 day confirmation now.</p><p>At ~20:09 PDT 18-Aug-2008&nbsp;near twilight (03:09UTC | 19-Aug) near 38.678/-121.175, I observed the most incredible fireball I've ever seen.</p><p>It began in the SE at the SE most edge of Sag and continued to brighten to the northern edge of Coma Bernices on a nearly apparently flat trajectory.&nbsp; It took approximately 17 seconds to make the trip.&nbsp; ~30deg' to 26deg'-ish height, 120+ deg in length.&nbsp; The train never shorter than 70deg.</p><p>It was so large and so brilliant that I can't begin to provide an accurate magnitude estimate.&nbsp; The coma appeared larger than the full moon, the center so brilliant that it left seared after-images for several minutes.&nbsp;It was brighter than a full moon, but if you crushed the moon down into that size you'd get there.&nbsp; My fist at arm's length didn't cover it. The single train was wider than my arm at arms length.&nbsp;&nbsp;The center appeared magnesium white with the coma appearing to fade into bands at the edges of yellow-to-orange-to an ionizing dark blue (persistence of vision issue?)&nbsp; The main shape appeared to be elongated vertically with a visible apparent shockwave in front of it.</p><p>Less than a minute after losing it I observed a communication black-out.&nbsp; Cell (PCS) which I was on at the time summarily dropped out and wouldn't reconnect for 20 seconds (timed by phone), Satellite (Sirius) radio (est. 30sec), 2m & 70cm amateur radio (ditto)</p><p>No audible was observed.</p><p>Apologies for the mediocre observation log.&nbsp; I really wasn't prepared for the event and&nbsp;experienced an emotional reaction to it... ;)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Anyone with any word on reentries matching?&nbsp; I imagine something like that had to be a reentry.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
D

derekmcd

Guest
<p>Holy Cow!!!&nbsp;&nbsp; Welcome back!!!</p><p><br /> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/11/25b5dec0-bea2-455f-bb2b-0c52ff56dc36.Medium.gif" alt="" /></p><p>As for your observation, I've heard nothing about it, but my name isn't MeteorWayne either.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

Guest
Thanks, Derek!&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-kiss.gif" border="0" alt="Kiss" title="Kiss" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
D

derekmcd

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Holy Cow!!!&nbsp;&nbsp; Welcome back!!! As for your observation, I've heard nothing about it, but my name isn't MeteorWayne either.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>Have you tried <strong>http://www.heavens-above.com/</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp; for re-entry info? </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>
 
D

derekmcd

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks, Derek!&nbsp; <br /> Posted by adrenalynn</DIV></p><p>I found this for ya, too:</p><p>http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball/fireball_log2008.html</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Nothing from Aug 19, though.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>
 
A

adrenalynn

Guest
<p>
First let me note that yes, I checked aero.org and heaven's above ;)&nbsp;
&nbsp; </p><p>Thank you, though!&nbsp; Oh - and I'm prepping a report for AMS.&nbsp; :)</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
A

a_lost_packet_

Guest
<p>Wow!&nbsp; Sounds awesome!&nbsp; Definitely one of those things you wish you had a pic of. </p><p>Maybe MW will put on his cape and come to the rescue on thie one with some info.&nbsp; :)</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

Guest
<p>If anyone can, it's S_MW!</p><p>&nbsp;I'll check back in a few days when the fluid drains from the blisters on my retina and my annoyance at having such a great resource decimated subsides a bit. ;)</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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nimbus

Guest
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If anyone can, it's S_MW!&nbsp;I'll check back in a few days when the fluid drains from the blisters on my retina and my annoyance at having such a great resource decimated subsides a bit. ;) <br /> Posted by adrenalynn</DIV>If there was a 'link to this post' on this forum, I'd go link to the above in the weeks-old (if not months-old) "Help me pick out the drapery" thread in the user feedback forum. &nbsp;You'd think they'd have fixed such a simple aesthetic matter by now!<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
M

MeteorWayne

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi All, long time no chat!&nbsp; Of course, it would be an observation that brought me back.&nbsp;First let me note that yes, I checked aero.org and heaven's above ;)&nbsp; My space-track account doesn't seem to work anymore and they require a 1-2 day confirmation now.At ~20:09 PDT 18-Aug-2008&nbsp;near twilight (03:09UTC | 19-Aug) near 38.678/-121.175, I observed the most incredible fireball I've ever seen.It began in the SE at the SE most edge of Sag and continued to brighten to the northern edge of Coma Bernices on a nearly apparently flat trajectory.&nbsp; It took approximately 17 seconds to make the trip.&nbsp; ~30deg' to 26deg'-ish height, 120+ deg in length.&nbsp; The train never shorter than 70deg.It was so large and so brilliant that I can't begin to provide an accurate magnitude estimate.&nbsp; The coma appeared larger than the full moon, the center so brilliant that it left seared after-images for several minutes.&nbsp;It was brighter than a full moon, but if you crushed the moon down into that size you'd get there.&nbsp; My fist at arm's length didn't cover it. The single train was wider than my arm at arms length.&nbsp;&nbsp;The center appeared magnesium white with the coma appearing to fade into bands at the edges of yellow-to-orange-to an ionizing dark blue (persistence of vision issue?)&nbsp; The main shape appeared to be elongated vertically with a visible apparent shockwave in front of it.Less than a minute after losing it I observed a communication black-out.&nbsp; Cell (PCS) which I was on at the time summarily dropped out and wouldn't reconnect for 20 seconds (timed by phone), Satellite (Sirius) radio (est. 30sec), 2m & 70cm amateur radio (ditto)No audible was observed.Apologies for the mediocre observation log.&nbsp; I really wasn't prepared for the event and&nbsp;experienced an emotional reaction to it... ;)&nbsp;Anyone with any word on reentries matching?&nbsp; I imagine something like that had to be a reentry.&nbsp; <br />Posted by adrenalynn</DIV><br /><br />Good to hear from you again!</p><p>FYI, this is another reentry page I use : http://www.reentrynews.com/upcoming.html</p><p>Nothing was listed there. I also checked close approaching/potential impacting NEO's with no hits either.</p><p>I did&nbsp;find a few&nbsp;intriguing possibilities which I'll look at more closely. </p><p>If I'm plotting the path correctly from your description (there are a few inconsistencies that I'll ask about later to clarify) it could have been an earth (actually atmosphere) grazing Southern delta Aquarid meteor. The radiant was below the horizon, which would lead to the long path and slow velocity.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>If you wear sunglasses, it cuts down on the SDC blisters :)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Wayne</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
3

3488

Guest
<p>&nbsp;<BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">If anyone can, it's S_MW!&nbsp;I'll check back in a few days when the fluid drains from the blisters on my retina and my annoyance at having such a great resource decimated subsides a bit. ;) <br />Posted by adrenalynn</font></DIV></p><p><strong><font size="2">Great to see you again adrenalynn.</font></strong> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /></p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Good to hear from you again!FYI, this is another reentry page I use : <font color="#000080">http://www.reentrynews.com/upcoming.html</font>Nothing was listed there. I also checked close approaching/potential impacting NEO's with no hits either.I did&nbsp;find a few&nbsp;intriguing possibilities which I'll look at more closely. If I'm plotting the path correctly from your description (there are a few inconsistencies that I'll ask about later to clarify) it could have been an earth (actually atmosphere) grazing Southern delta Aquarid meteor. The radiant was below the horizon, which would lead to the long path and slow velocity.&nbsp;If you wear sunglasses, it cuts down on the SDC blisters :)&nbsp;Wayne <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</font></DIV></p><p><font size="2"><strong>I agree Wayne, </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>First its great to see adrenalyyn back.<br /><br />Second, if it was a deorbit of a sizable piece of launch vehicle or redundant satelitte, the reentrynews.com site would have listed it. A major deorbit would have been known well in advance.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>My guess is that it is natural & if indeed a grazer from the Southern Delta&nbsp;Aquarid shower, then hopefully someone got a spectra, though of course the chance of catching that is virtually zero I suppose.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Andrew Brown.</strong></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
M

MeteorWayne

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi All, long time no chat!&nbsp; Of course, it would be an observation that brought me back.&nbsp;First let me note that yes, I checked aero.org and heaven's above ;)&nbsp; My space-track account doesn't seem to work anymore and they require a 1-2 day confirmation now.At ~20:09 PDT 18-Aug-2008&nbsp;near twilight (03:09UTC | 19-Aug) near 38.678/-121.175, I observed the most incredible fireball I've ever seen.It began in the SE at the SE most edge of Sag and continued to brighten to the northern edge of Coma Bernices on a nearly apparently flat trajectory.&nbsp; It took approximately 17 seconds to make the trip.&nbsp; ~30deg' to 26deg'-ish height, 120+ deg in length.&nbsp; The train never shorter than 70deg.It was so large and so brilliant that I can't begin to provide an accurate magnitude estimate.&nbsp; The coma appeared larger than the full moon, the center so brilliant that it left seared after-images for several minutes.&nbsp;It was brighter than a full moon, but if you crushed the moon down into that size you'd get there.&nbsp; My fist at arm's length didn't cover it. The single train was wider than my arm at arms length.&nbsp;&nbsp;The center appeared magnesium white with the coma appearing to fade into bands at the edges of yellow-to-orange-to an ionizing dark blue (persistence of vision issue?)&nbsp; The main shape appeared to be elongated vertically with a visible apparent shockwave in front of it.Less than a minute after losing it I observed a communication black-out.&nbsp; Cell (PCS) which I was on at the time summarily dropped out and wouldn't reconnect for 20 seconds (timed by phone), Satellite (Sirius) radio (est. 30sec), 2m & 70cm amateur radio (ditto)No audible was observed.Apologies for the mediocre observation log.&nbsp; I really wasn't prepared for the event and&nbsp;experienced an emotional reaction to it... ;)&nbsp;Anyone with any word on reentries matching?&nbsp; I imagine something like that had to be a reentry.&nbsp; <br />Posted by adrenalynn</DIV><br /><br />Here's the inconsistencies I'd like to clear up.</p><p>At that time, I show SE Sagittarius at about elevation 14 degrees, and N Coma Berenices at ~ elevation 42 degrees.</p><p>I assume since Sag is so bright, you identified the start point fairly accurately. Was it above or below Jupiter? (22 degrees elevation, Mag -2.6). The bright star in the SE corner of Sag (Kaus Australis, Mag +1.8) is 14 degrees elevation at that hour. So perhaps you can better define the start point.</p><p>Now, you said it was flat, which would place the end point somewhere in Virgo. It's hard to identify faint stars in that area, especially only 15 minutes after sunset. (Moving left to right, correct?) </p><p>This would make a reentry unlikely, BTW, since it is the opposite direction of launches which would be traveling toward the east, rather than the west</p><p>Anything you can do to firm up the details will make any possible ID more accurate on my end. Thanx for the report. </p><p>This will also help make your AMS report more accurate. It takes Bob a few days to update the AMS fireball list (current through the 14th now), should be interesting to see if other reports show up. I'll drop him a line for any advance info before he has a chance to update the whole list.</p><p>I'll poke around elsewhere, to see if there's any other news out there.</p><p>Since you know the sky so well, your report&nbsp;has the potential to be much better than 95% of them.</p><p>WayneMan</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
S

silylene old

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><br />Posted by adrenalynn</DIV></p><p>Welcome back !</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;My guess is that it is natural & if indeed a grazer from the Southern Delta&nbsp;Aquarid shower, then hopefully someone got a spectra, though of course the chance of catching that is virtually zero I suppose.Andrew Brown. <br />Posted by 3488</DIV><br /><br />If the time is correct, that's only 15 minutes after sunset, so spectra would be hard. And AFAIK, there are only 1 or 2 stations in North America doing meteor spectra. Ed Majden is in Vancouver, which would have been too far north. Unfortunately, that soon after sunset, even most fireball patrols would be inactive.</p><p>MW</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
<p>One other audible side note adrenalynn...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Assuming the low elevation reported, the meteor was likely more than 300&nbsp;miles away. As such, any&nbsp;propogated sound would have occurred over 25 minutes later....</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
A

adrenalynn

Guest
<p>Thanks, Wayne!&nbsp; S_MW indeed!</p><p>&nbsp;Yes, there was an issue with my report making it a confusing read, and my apologies.&nbsp; After I went to bed I realized it has the potential for confusion.</p><p>I couldn't see many stars out to make a solid fix on anything really exact, I was under ~Mag 2 skies at that point.&nbsp; I was using just a few bodies in&nbsp;constellations I "knew" were there as a means of measuring the length of travel rather than the elevation.&nbsp; For elevation I used Antares/Scorp (the object was a few degrees above Antares)&nbsp;and Spica/Virgo, both visible.&nbsp; For end-elevation estimates, Mars was just becoming visible, and Denebala was up visible only through averted vision.&nbsp; Start-point was a little more wishy-washy, it was a "bit more easterly than Jupiter [a bit to the left]" Albaldah isn't bright enough at that time, so I hesitate to guess, but I would say something more in that neighborhood - Kaus Australis is a fair bit further south.&nbsp; Its start elevation was just above Jupiter and tracked just over Antares.&nbsp; I know Antares should be a bit under the ~30deg mark&nbsp;that time of night/season, so I ran with that.&nbsp; Spica should be about 5deg lower, I believe, and it&nbsp;passed&nbsp;above&nbsp;Spica before I lost it,&nbsp;not obscuring Spica&nbsp;- hence that elevation estimate.&nbsp; And I did mispeak, not sure where that came from - not from my notes:&nbsp; Western Edge of Coma Bernices [in length not elevation].&nbsp; It was west (right) of Spica/Virgo when I lost it - and my sky is pretty open there down to just a few degrees above the true horizon.&nbsp; Again, <em>not</em> elevation, call it between Spica and Mars plotting its ending.</p><p>
This would make a reentry unlikely, BTW, since it is the opposite direction of launches which would be traveling toward the east, rather than the west
&nbsp; DOH!&nbsp; Good point!&nbsp; I didn't even think of that!</p><p>My apologies for both the inexactness and the confusion - the latter I should have better managed, the former, well, dusk observing is a ... you know. ;)&nbsp; I take some pride in being able to provide worthwhile observations even under stress.&nbsp; This was so extraordinary that while talking to my friend on the phone I was actually struck dumb.&nbsp; "fa fa fa fireball sh* no way! OMG" was my bravest attempt as it got brighter and eventually flared painfully.&nbsp; Not a shining moment for me, even as my "critical observer" was trying to spot reference points.&nbsp; </p><p>I can't get closer than the minute, even though my friend tried, the best I can do is use the communication failure since my phone is accurate time (gps-sync'd by the provider) and logs the dropped calls.&nbsp; I have her written log of my descriptions to compare to my memory.</p><p>I have deliberately NOT loaded a sky-chart since I didn't want to poison my observation by filling in details of things that I didn't KNOW or SEE.&nbsp; Probably time I did now since everything is written down and logged here.&nbsp; It's easy to start making assumptions with a sky chart in front of me that might not be all that good.&nbsp; My brain is too good at filling in stuff and I've learned to not give it the opportunity. ;)</p><p>Thanks for your efforts with my inexact reporting, MW!&nbsp; You're the be-all-end-all resource available to me for this stuff, and it's greatly appreciated!</p><p>&nbsp;Oh, btw, I do have a good magnitude estimate now:</p><p>I'd say it's about the CubeRoot of this forum page, or</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; 1</p><p>--------</p><p>The IQ of Pluck's architect ^ 3</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It was rather bright... ;)</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

Guest
<p>Thanks for the WB's all, but as I mentioned in the thread where they are picking out drapery whilst the room is on fire - I can't spend too much time here.&nbsp; It's too frustrating to see what's gone on with the place - or what hasn't.</p><p>Nimbus - I posted over there. :)</p><p>The sunglasses might help with the blisters, but it unfortunately makes the software platform choice look all that much dimmer, and Pluck author's IQ vanishes entirely... ;)</p><p>&nbsp;Oh - one more note:&nbsp; "reentrynews" looks like an alias for aero.org.&nbsp; I think the latter is easier to type - and was the first place I turned.&nbsp; Space-Track used to be the be-all-end-all, but I think they're worried about terrorists blowing up our re-entering space junk, so they just continue spending our money on it but won't let us access it. ;)</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Posted by adrenalynn</DIV><br /><br />Much better, now I can see the path, and have a go at plotting it on my gnomic meteor charts.</p><p>I believe those same words that you said into your cellphone are on my meteor tape for the Perseid peak night for a -8 Perseid that left a 16 second train!</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

Guest
<p>Thanks, Wayne!&nbsp; Better you than me - I'm was a math major and my eyes glazed over halfway through the first paragraph of gnomic meteor chart plotting on the IMO. ;)</p><p>&nbsp;My train was similar to what you describe, but I have to believe the terminal&nbsp;magnitude was higher.&nbsp; It lit up half my clear sky when it flared and was literally painful leaving nasty after-images on my retina for over a minute, eye watering and the whole nine yards - it was BRIGHT!&nbsp; Like half as bright as this page, almost. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif" border="0" alt="Cool" title="Cool" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Thanks again for your efforts!</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks, Wayne!&nbsp; Better you than me - I'm was a math major and my eyes glazed over halfway through the first paragraph of gnomic meteor chart plotting on the IMO. ;)&nbsp;My train was similar to what you describe, but I have to believe the terminal&nbsp;magnitude was higher.&nbsp; It lit up half my clear sky when it flared and was literally painful leaving nasty after-images on my retina for over a minute, eye watering and the whole nine yards - it was BRIGHT!&nbsp; Like half as bright as this page, almost. &nbsp;Thanks again for your efforts! <br />Posted by adrenalynn</DIV><br /><br />Plotting such a long meteor (especially from a verbal description a few minutes after sunset) is a challenge. One reason is that the meteor path covers multiple charts. In fact when I am plotting, for a long multi chart meteor I usually do what you did; i.e. create a detailed verbal description so I can do it the next morning at the desk. It would just take too long to plot under a dim red flashlight across multiple charts. As it is, I am not a particularly fast plotter (hopefully that's because I try and be very accurate). It takes my from 20 seconds to a minute per meteor, averaging about 45 seconds.</p><p>Back tracing a meteor across multiple charts to find a radiant is easy, plotting one across multiple charts is much more difficult, but I am working on it now.</p><p>Now that the description is cleaned up so well (nice job working with me there) I can get it done.</p><p>MW</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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ekoerner

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi All, long time no chat!&nbsp; Of course, it would be an observation that brought me back.&nbsp;First let me note that yes, I checked aero.org and heaven's above ;)&nbsp; My space-track account doesn't seem to work anymore and they require a 1-2 day confirmation now.At ~20:09 PDT 18-Aug-2008&nbsp;near twilight (03:09UTC | 19-Aug) near 38.678/-121.175, I observed the most incredible fireball I've ever seen.It began in the SE at the SE most edge of Sag and continued to brighten to the northern edge of Coma Bernices on a nearly apparently flat trajectory.&nbsp; It took approximately 17 seconds to make the trip.&nbsp; ~30deg' to 26deg'-ish height, 120+ deg in length.&nbsp; The train never shorter than 70deg.It was so large and so brilliant that I can't begin to provide an accurate magnitude estimate.&nbsp; The coma appeared larger than the full moon, the center so brilliant that it left seared after-images for several minutes.&nbsp;It was brighter than a full moon, but if you crushed the moon down into that size you'd get there.&nbsp; My fist at arm's length didn't cover it. The single train was wider than my arm at arms length.&nbsp;&nbsp;The center appeared magnesium white with the coma appearing to fade into bands at the edges of yellow-to-orange-to an ionizing dark blue (persistence of vision issue?)&nbsp; The main shape appeared to be elongated vertically with a visible apparent shockwave in front of it.Less than a minute after losing it I observed a communication black-out.&nbsp; Cell (PCS) which I was on at the time summarily dropped out and wouldn't reconnect for 20 seconds (timed by phone), Satellite (Sirius) radio (est. 30sec), 2m & 70cm amateur radio (ditto)No audible was observed.Apologies for the mediocre observation log.&nbsp; I really wasn't prepared for the event and&nbsp;experienced an emotional reaction to it... ;)&nbsp;Anyone with any word on reentries matching?&nbsp; I imagine something like that had to be a reentry.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by adrenalynn</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Hi I'm new here!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Last night I saw that fireball you described.&nbsp; It was the most amazing thing I have ever seen in the night sky.</p><p>&nbsp;I'm no expert observer, I just happend to be outside when it came blazing through.</p><p>I was hoping to find an answer to what it was I observed?</p>
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
<p>OK, I'm back having created a plot from your description adrenalynn, and done some analysis.</p><p>Here's what I've come up with.</p><p>First let me state that it could always be a random (sporadic) meteor. That can never be discounted. However, in this case I think the evidence points in a certain direction.</p><p>We can discount the southern delta Aquarids as the radiant was too far below the horizon to be the source.</p><p>Based on the long length, it points to a radiant very near (or even possibly just below) the horizon. Projecting the plot backward, at the proper distance from the start and end points makes a bullsye on the Antihelion point, the source of ecliptic showers throughout the year.</p><p>These are dozens of very low rate showers from many source objects. They are low inclination (close to the plane of the solar system) comets and asteroids in prograde "Apollo" type orbits. That means the perihelion is inside the earth's orbit, and aphelion is outside the earth's orbit. It's sort of the leftover fluff that the planets and asteroid belt formed from and include the "Jupiter Family" comets.&nbsp;They travel&nbsp;around the sun the same direction as 98% of the other stuff in the solar system, shedding debris whenever near the earth if cometary, and sometimes spinning up to the point of breakup if more on the asteroidal side of the continuum.</p><p>&nbsp;What happens is that streams originating from objects like this get smeared out very quickly since they regularly come close to all the planets. That's why the ecliptic showers are a very low rate (ZHR 1-3 per hour combined) continuous of source of meteors. Currently the antihelion radiant is in Aquarius, from a few degrees below the "water jar) to about 15 degrees lower, and extending 30 degrees along the ecliptic. It moves about 1 degree east every day in the sky as we move about a degree per day in our orbit.</p><p>I can't maybe give a satisfying answer in that it came from such and such an object, there are hundreds or a thousand to choose from. But we can say it came from this souce of objects in low inclination orbits, catching up to us from behind&nbsp;appearing from&nbsp;a point nearly opposite the sun. And based on the brightness, and long path as it grazed the atmosphere, we can reasonably speculate that is was a rocky object more than a meter in diameter, more likely from an apollo type asteroid than a comet.</p><p>Still that's quite a bit of information for an object seen just after sunset!! <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif" border="0" alt="Cool" title="Cool" />&nbsp;You did a fine job collecting the information, I only wish most fireball reports were as precise. In addition, with most reports whatever data of unknown accuracy is presented, that's it. I've interviewed a number of people following fireballs, and get very little additional information, On the other hand, we were able to work together to extract the most possible out of your observation, and therefore were able to reach a reasonable conclusion. It was fun and educational!!</p><p>Thanx!</p><p>Be sure to submit a report to the AMS, their list is still only current through Aug 14. ANd I'd be pleased if you'd submit one to the NAMN as well (home town plug)</p><p>For anyone reading this, here are the places to report fireballs...</p><p>AMS: http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball/report.html</p><p>NAMN for the beginner: http://www.namnmeteors.org/fireball/report.html</p><p>NAMN for the more experience observer: http://www.namnmeteors.org/fireball/namnreport.html</p><p>Meteor Wayne</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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aphh

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<p>I saw something similar last summer, a fiery greenish ball of light coming down on the eastern quadrant of the sky. It didn't last for as long as this phenomena, but long enough so that when it went behind some trees I expected to see it again and hear a crash.</p><p>But to no avail, it didn't re-emerge once it had gone low and obscured briefly by some trees. Easily as bright as the brightest firecrackers or signal flares, but clearly entering at high velocity. </p>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I saw something similar last summer, a fiery greenish ball of light coming down on the eastern quadrant of the sky. It didn't last for as long as this phenomena, but long enough so that when it went behind some trees I expected to see it again and hear a crash.But to no avail, it didn't re-emerge once it had gone low and obscured briefly by some trees. Easily as bright as the brightest firecrackers or signal flares, but clearly entering at high velocity. <br />Posted by aphh</DIV><br /><br />Fireballs are cool, aren't they? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>OK, I'm back having created a plot from your description adrenalynn, and done some analysis.</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;Insanely awesome sleuthing!&nbsp; Thank you!</p><p>Honestly, it's no less interesting from my perspective than it would be if you gave me the object's serial number and DOB.&nbsp; Science isn't [frequently] about exact identification, it's about circling in on the answers, and that's why I find it so cool in general.&nbsp; It's all a big mystery.&nbsp; You have little "aha!" moments surrounded in sweat and tears.</p><p>&nbsp;Thank you kindly for all the effort you put in, and for your patience as we drilled down on it.&nbsp; I do have a bit of an advantage - I have about as close to eidetic memory as one is likely to casually find.</p><p>&nbsp;Thank you!</p><p>--- Jodie<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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