Ultraviolet & Infrared Light...

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">There are theoretically an infinite number of frequencies, so if you define "color" as "a specific frequency", then there are a theoretically infinite number of colors.</font><br /><br />Very good! I concur ;o) Now what about my last post about gamma rays?

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I will switch to gamma rays, if that is okay. Also, I will change the original scope of this thread, so that it encompass all aspects of light in general. Can you suggest to me how I might achieve this mission? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I'm just trying to keep people focused. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> It sounded like we were digressing into chemistry (with me being one of the offenders!). But as I think about it, it may be significant, since of course the atomic structure has a major influence on what color is emitted or reflected.<br /><br />I think you're doing a good job of rescoping as you go. Nothing more needed as far as that goes.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The following pick is a "all sky map in gamma rays >100Mev from the egret instrument aboard the CGRO gamma ray telescope". What is the correlation to that large band and masses? It kind of looks like a super galaxy! Purples and Reds appear to be the color of choice in the pic as well, so why is this? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Somebody who knows gamma rays better than me can better answer, but I believe that band across the middle is the Milky Way. The Comptom Gamma Ray Observatory (deorbited a number of years ago as its gyroscopes were failing) was an Earth-orbiting telescope, so you can consider it as having basically the same perspective as a person on the Earth, except that it's easier for the orbital observatory to map the whole sky. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">Somebody who knows gamma rays better than me can better answer, but I believe that band across the middle is the Milky Way. The Comptom Gamma Ray Observatory (deorbited a number of years ago as its gyroscopes were failing) was an Earth-orbiting telescope, so you can consider it as having basically the same perspective as a person on the Earth, except that it's easier for the orbital observatory to map the whole sky.</font><br /><br />That makes perfect since. I forgot were in a galaxy for a second, but I slapped my face, and I feel better now.<br /><br />What wave comes after gamma, or is gamma the extent of the known spectrum? Are Alpha waves, and Beta waves variations of gamma waves?

 

[jatslo]

<b>Uses:</b><br /><br /><font color="yellow">The powerful nature of gamma-rays have made them useful in the sterilising of medical equipment by killing bacteria. They are also used to kill bacteria in foodstuffs, particularly meat and vegetables, to maintain freshness. This process is known as irradiation. The irradiation of food has become an issue of public debate. Critics claim that the effects of ionizing radiation on food are poorly understood, and that such irradiation may damage the nutritional content of food or render the food itself radioactive. Supporters argue that the critics are motivated by irrational paranoia about anything to do with radiation, and that the effects of radiation on food have been well studied in the context of our understanding of gamma rays; they also point out that no known process involving gamma rays (as opposed to neutron radiation) results in radioactive activation, and irradiated food may easily be examined for radioactivity. Finally, they point to the health dangers of inadequately preserved foods.<br /><br />In spite of their cancer-causing properties, gamma rays are also used to treat some types of cancer. In the procedure called gamma-knife surgery, multiple concentrated beams of gamma rays are directed on the growth in order to kill the cancerous cells. The beams are aimed from different angles to focus the radiation on the growth while minimising damage to the surrounding tissues.<br /><br />Gamma rays are also used for diagnostic purposes in nuclear medicine. Several gamma emitting radioisotopes are used, one of which is technetium-99m. When administered to a patient, a gamma camera can be used to form an image of the radioisotope's distribution by detecting the gamma radiation emitted. Such a technique can be employed to diagnose a wide range of conditions (e.g. spread of cancer to the bones).</font><br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray

 

[najab]

><i> Are Alpha waves, and Beta waves...</i><p>There's no such thing as alpha or beta waves, at least not in the electromagnetic spectrum.</p>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>What wave comes after gamma, or is gamma the extent of the known spectrum? Are Alpha waves, and Beta waves variations of gamma waves?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /><b>Gamma Rays</b><br />A gamma ray is any electromagnetic radiation with a frequency of 300,000,000 terahertz or higher. There is no upper limit to the frequency. Anything past that frequency is a gamma ray. (The wavelength of a gamma ray is 1 picometer or lower -- remember, shorter wavelengths = higher frequencies.)<br /><br />The full spectrum is, broadly: radio, infrared, visible, ultraviolet, x-ray.<br /><br />Radio is subdivided into categories of frequency. The two you've probably heard of the most are UHF and VHF. These are used for television broadcasts. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Microwaves are a subset of radio waves at the high frequency end of the radio band.<br /><br />X-ray is subdivided into categories as well. It's divided into soft x-rays, hard x-rays, and gamma rays. Gamma rays are the most energetic electromagnetic radiation of all. They are dangerous and they are considered ionizing radiation. They are also very hard to shield against. How much shielding is required will depend on the frequency (and therefore energy) of the radiation. It may require yards of concrete, huge water tanks, or a lot of lead. (Lead is popular due to its density. Lead aprons are commonly used in medical x-ray imaging to reduce unneccesary exposure.) These are the rays that would cause the most deaths from radiation immediately following a nuclear blast, and these are why fallout shelters are built with thick concrete walls. Gamma rays can safely be used to sterilize food, instruments, and other things because like all electromagnetic radiation, it leaves no residue.<br /><br /><b>Alpha Rays</b><br />Alpha rays are actually a completely different kind of radiation. They are not photons. They are a kind of particle radiation, and are also <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

<font color="orange">There's no such thing as alpha or beta waves, at least not in the electromagnetic spectrum (najaB).</font><br /><br /><font color="yellow">Gamma rays are less ionising than either <b>alpha or beta rays</b>. However, reducing human danger requires thicker shielding. They produce damage similar to that caused by X-rays, such as burns, cancer, and genetic mutations.</font><br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray<br /><br />What is alpha and beta to gamma?

 

[najab]

Read calliarcale's post.

 

[thechemist]

Neighbouring letters in the greek alphabet ?<br />what do I win ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[jatslo]

Gamma particles?<br /><br />So alpha and beta particles have mass, and charge, whereas gamma particles have zero mass, with charge?<br /><br />That's an odd pairing. I wonder what the significance of this is to particle unification?

 

[nacnud]

No, gamma waves are Electro-magnetic wave. Same as radio, microwaves, infrared, visible, ultraviolet, x-ray etc. They are part of the Electromagnetic spectrum. They are made up of only energy and have no charge.<br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Gamma particles?<br /><br />So alpha and beta particles have mass, and charge, whereas gamma particles have zero mass, with charge?<br /><br />That's an odd pairing. I wonder what the significance of this is to particle unification? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Don't let the names fool you -- they're misleading.<br /><br />Alpha and beta rays are really particles.<br /><br />Gamma rays are completely different -- they're electromagnetic radiation.<br /><br />But when they were discovered, the scientists didn't know that there was a difference between them, so they named them alpha, beta, and gamma, in order of how much shielding it takes to stop them. It wasn't until much later that they learned that gamma rays didn't really fit with alpha and beta rays. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

An alpha rays is very fast moving helium nucleus. <br /><br />It is called an alpha ray because when it was discovered it had the same charge as a helium nucleus but was too heavy so people thought is was something different. We now know that the extra mass is due to it moving at relativistic velocities.<br /><br />A beta ray is a very fast moving electron.<br /><br />Again the extra mass due to relativistic effects was not known about so it thought to be a new particle. Cathode rays are also fast moving electrons.<br /><br />

 

[najab]

You know what's annoying - that's at least the third time that someone has tried to explain the concept of the electromagnetic spectrum to jatslo, and I'm willing to bet that he'll still find a way to confuse himself. *sigh*<p>Note that nowhere did anyone say anything about gamma particles, in fact Calli went to great pains to distinguish between alpha & beta particles and gamma rays - yet we hear about gamma particles and their role in unification. <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /></p>

 

[nacnud]

Najab<br /><br />I swore that I would never try to correct one of jatslo's posts again over a month ago, but that means I can't vist SS&A or ATA without cringing.<br /><br />Jatslo<br /><br />No offence Jatslo but how long must you continue like this?

 

[mrmorris]

Depends on how long people are going to keep feeding him straight lines. This behavior has to be deliberate. It's statistically impossible (or at least very very very improbable) for this to be basic ignorance of the subject matter at hand when so many people continue to present clear explanations of the topic under discussion.

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">You know what's annoying - that's at least the third time that someone has tried to explain the concept of the electromagnetic spectrum to jatslo, and I'm willing to bet that he'll still find a way to confuse himself. *sigh*<br /><br />Note that nowhere did anyone say anything about gamma particles, in fact Calli went to great pains to distinguish between alpha & beta particles and gamma rays - yet we hear about gamma particles and their role in unification.<br /></font><br /><br />I am not here to get into a particle versus wave debate, so if your annoyed then move on, if you have nothing more to contribute.

 

[najab]

You know, you're right. There's no way anything I contribute to this thread - not even the GUT in easy-to-read popup book form - can result in you and I having a meaningful scientific discussion, so I think I will bow out.

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">No, gamma waves are Electro-magnetic wave. Same as radio, microwaves, infrared, visible, ultraviolet, x-ray etc. They are part of the Electromagnetic spectrum. They are made up of only energy and have no charge.</font><br /><br />X-rays jet from the poles of Black Holes, and I am trying to walk as gingerly as possible; The fact that X-rays are jetting, suggests that x-rays are charged, microwaves arc off of metal, which suggests that microwaves are charged, and gamma is in the same ball park.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">In April 1887, Nikola Tesla began to investigate X-rays using high voltages and vacuum tubes of his own design, as well as Crookes tubes. From his technical publications, it is indicated that he invented and developed a special single-electrode X-ray tube, which differed from other X-ray tubes in having no target electrode. He stated these facts in his 1897 X-ray lecture before the New York Academy of Sciences. The principle behind these devices is nowadays called the bremsstrahlung process, in which a high-energy secondary X-ray emission is produced when charged particles (such as electrons) pass through matter. By 1892, Tesla performed several such experiments, but he did not categorize the emissions as what were later called X-rays, instead generalizing the phenomenon as radiant energy. He did not publicly declare his findings nor did he make them widely known. His subsequent X-ray experimentation by vacuum high field emissions led him to alert the scientific community to the biological hazards associated with X-ray exposure.</font><br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">No offence Jatslo but how long must you continue like this?</font><br /><br />Until I understand particle annihilation, and its correlation to light.

 

[nacnud]

OK where did you get that from? What particles are you interested in?<br /><br />It is not hard to understand if you don't randomly go off on tangents or try to come up with 'new' ideas.

 

[najab]

><i>Until I understand particle annihilation, and its correlation to light.</i><p>Well that's an easy one: there are particles - normal matter - and anti particles - anti-matter. When a particle meets it's corresponding anti-particle they annhilate each other. In other words, they are converted completely to energy, and there's nothing left afterwards.<p>Now the connection to light: some of the energy released is in the form of electromagnetic radiation - mostly gamma rays, but some of it is in the visible spectrum. And there's the connection between particle annhilation and light.<p>Stop now.</p></p></p>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>X-rays jet from the poles of Black Holes, and I am trying to walk as gingerly as possible; The fact that X-rays are jetting, suggests that x-rays are charged, microwaves arc off of metal, which suggests that microwaves are charged, and gamma is in the same ball park<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />The x-rays aren't jetting out from the black holes. They are being emitted by the particles in the jets.<br /><br />Basically, the jets you see are composed of material flung wildly away from the black hole in a manner similar to a gravitational "slingshot" maneuver. It's moving incredibly fast, so fast that it gets ionized and energized. There's probably a great deal of both alpha and beta particles in those things. The matter in the jets is so energetic that it emits electromagnetic radiation at fantastically high frequencies -- x-rays and gamma rays.<br /><br />Getting to microwaves, they do not arc off of metal. I assume you are referring to the sparks you see in a microwave oven if you are forgetful (or mischeivous <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) and stick a metal object in there and turn it on?<br /><br />A microwave oven works by bombarding the food with microwaves. These excite the particles they hit, causing them to heat up. It works particularly well with water molecules, which is why microwaved food can get so steamy (and why microwaved chicken can be so darned rubbery; it's basically poached). Metal reacts in interesting ways to microwaves, which are of course radio waves. Basically, it can induce currents in it. This is how radio antennas work, actually. In a microwave oven, the focused microwaves directed onto the ungrounded and insulated floor of the microwave will cause electrical charges to move around in a metal object placed in the microwave. The arcs that you see are not microwaves, which are invisible to the human eye. The arcs are plain old electricity.<br /><br />By the way, there are <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">Well that's an easy one: there are particles - normal matter - and anti particles - anti-matter. When a particle meets it's corresponding anti-particle they annhilate each other. In other words, they are converted completely to energy, and there's nothing left afterwards.</font><br /><br />Particle Annihilation:<br /><br />A] Alpha, Beta, and Gamma rays are emitted. B] Alpha, and Beta rays are charged masses. C] Gamma rays are absent of charges and masses.<br /><br />We are talking about an infinite variety of types that are dictated by the element type and the speeds at which the particles are traveling prior to Particle Annihilation.<br /><br />Why is light also subject to Particle Annihilation within a black hole?

 

[nacnud]

<font color="yellow">Why is light also subject to Particle Annihilation</font><br /><br />Its isn't. In this case we are considering EM as waves. <br /><br />One EM wave can be cancelled by another EM wave with the opposite phase.<br /><br />i.e. the wave crest of one wave meets the wave bottom of a similar wave coming in the opposite direction the result is that both waves are cancelled out. This is called Destructive Interference and is the principle behind how a CD works.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Why is light also subject to Particle Annihilation within a <b>black hole</b>?</font><br /><br />It isn't. A beam of light isn't destroyed in a black hole, it is just trapped there because it can't move fast enough to get out.<br /><br />It is amazing how you manage to get things so precisely wrong. It must be a special talent or very carefully crafted <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> /jk<br />