Video footage of UFO over New York

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">Its a fraud, the actress in it already admitted its a hoax.</font><br /><br />Yes. I "admit" I never played sports for many years because I've weigh 400 pounds - and that's why I sit at the computer all day. Gosh, I admitted it, don't you believe me? You can believe me without proof other than that - because my testimony is proof. Seriously. I don't need to show you anything else, since now you know that I weigh 400 pounds, because I admitted so. No science required. Now you can leave me alone since I admitted this - I really do admit it.

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">explain why a crude chemical rocket is needed after it passes the helicopter.</font><br /><br />It is not needed.<br /><br />Even if the video is rendered trustworthy, there is visual evidence for a UFO, but none for any oxygen or flourine powered propulsion. Chemical analysis cannot be done through primitive videos formats like MPEG, DIVX, MOV, and so on. Also, there is no visual evidence, or heat signature, of the exhaust of the amount required to power the UFO in the context of using mudane technologies known to man using Netwon's third law (as applied to known physics).<br /><br />The "long cloud" that the UFO forms is more like a contrail than cloudy rocket exhaust.

 

[ben89]

your 400 pounds?<br />

 

[kmarinas86]

Yes, I admit it.

 

[kmarinas86]

Alejandro Franz's Manipulated Video Frame<br /><br />WTC UFO World Trade Center<br />July 24, 2000

 

[ben89]

so hows can u walk 2 skool & stuff?<br /><br />

 

[kmarinas86]

See here. When people admit something, such as being guilty of a crime or being part of a great team, what they say they may be actually false, or an attempt to attack themselves, to maintain a reputation of a little sanity (e.g. Barbara Sicuranza), or just to say a white lie. If the person sounds like he/she is admitting something or making a promise, be skeptical about their claim. They may admit of having particular qualities which they specify, while keeping the secret to themselves that they don't really possess those qualities. I could admit being a relative of an astronaut, but a very very clear headed person would want more evidence before believing it. Admitting to others is not always an act of conveying what you know is true, it can be conveying what you know is not true.<br /><br />That is why Barbara Sicuranza's statement of what she says about what happened does not convince me. Once you're more convinced, you reduce questioning, which opens you to self-maintained gullibility and closes you from deeper understanding.

 

[ben89]

sho why i started askin questions cuz it dont make sence like hows can u get around campus/ im a trustin person but sho looked like that statement was pullin a sicuramza so i was like aha/<br /><br />sho wants evidence but if someones playin mindgames sho makes it hard 2 tell but if yer a disserning person i guess u kno right away<br /><br />but sho needs 2 see signs/

 

[kmarinas86]

If the entire world stopped playing mind games, there would be no traditional media as we know it, everyone would trust one another - like they do in the show Extreme Makeover Home Edition. Things would get done faster. Wars would end quicker. Eventually, there would be no crime, hate, etc.

 

[qso1]

From what I recall of the footage it distinctly looked like a smokey plume. Even if it were a contrail, what produces a contrail? Usually the exhaust from a jet engine. This would then suggest the possibility the UFO required jet engines which would be even more questionable in light of alleged UFO maneuverability and hovering capability.<br /><br />I certainly agree that chemical analysis cannot be done using a video. Any analysis should be done using more than just a video clip. Especially when one considers the low resolution of the clip, the type of clip (Mpeg, Dvxx, etc).<br /><br />However, the visual clues left by certain types of chemical rockets are what led me to consider the idea that someone while making this video decided some dramatic effect was required to make it even cooler. They thought of shuttle plumes the most visible of which is the solid rocket boosters (Powdered aluminum and ammonium perchlorate propellant mixed with binders).<br /><br />With this in mind, I ask myself...whats more probable:<br /><br />A UFO shows up right while the terrorists are destroying the WTC, are they on the terrorists side?<br /><br />Or:<br /><br />Someone wanting to continue to tap into UFO folklore which includes UFOs conveiniently showing up at historical events such as A-bomb tests and now WTC. That someone or more likely group of people makes a video of a UFO at WTC.<br /><br />Since I cannot actually prove either one, the more mundane explanation is IMO the more likely. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[ben89]

<font color="blue">If the entire world stopped playing mind games, there would be no traditional media as we know it, everyone would trust one another - like they do in the show Extreme Makeover Home Edition. Things would get done faster. Wars would end quicker. Eventually, there would be no crime, hate, etc.</font><br /><br />word!<br /><br />sho do agree with u/ tho ectreme makeover home editions a weird example/<br /><br /><br />

 

[qso1]

Kmarinas86:<br />If the entire world stopped playing mind games...<br /><br />Me:<br />There is a word for this world...Utopia, as I'm sure you heard. As long as human nature is the way it is, Utopia will always be a fantasy. Something we should all aspire to but since we are humans in a human nature kind of world, we cannot get to Utopia.<br /><br />Even Rael, the person to which you have the link posted. A utopian sort of person from his beliefs in his particular religion. Yet as with any person espousing such a belief. They have always had certain pre-conditions to partake in the quest for their proposed Utopia's. Conditions which taken to extremes can result in a lot of dead or broke followers as in the followers of Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">Conditions which taken to extremes can result in a lot of dead or broke followers as in the followers of Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite.</font><br /><br />Like the DOT COM bubble burst, and the many companies that fell because of it. Or like the people who go to play Deal or No Deal, or Lottery Scratch offs and end up ripped off. There are other examples, more or less extreme than the one you felt like pointing out.

 

[kmarinas86]

Also, a person needing to fulfill a mission does not desire death. When you have a something you need to do, quitting would be an act of <b>treason</b>. When you want to live forever - on Earth, without being killed in the process, why would you commit suicide? A Raelian does not commit sucide when something is to be, it would be inconsistent.<br /><br /><b>If this idea of yours is true</b>, then Bush must be a Cuban Socialist and former Russian and the daughter a Martian. <b>If this idea of yours is not true</b>, then Bush is the President of the United States. If you will, take that a little seriously, please.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Question:<br />It is said in the second message that one who suffers too<br />much pain, has the right to commit suicide. Does it mean<br />that suicide is a good thing?<br />Answer:<br />We will all be judged according to our actions while living on<br />this Earth. The person with more positive than negative<br />actions will be entitled to eternal life on the planet of the<br />Elohim</font>(Rael would be quick to note that the rule does not apply for people alive relatively recently - they would be recreated on <b>Earth</b> after the coming of Jesus - that is if they die before that.) source video (for the what? and how?) (@ 3:18) <font color="yellow">.<br />If a person suffers <b>too much</b> physically, and <b>if<br />human science is unable to relieve his pain</b>, then he has a<br /><b>right</b> to put an end to his life. If most of his actions in his life<br />were positive he will be recreated to live eternally. If they were<br />mainly negative, he will not be recreated and for him there<br />will be nothing. However, if most of his actions were negative</font>not just mainly<font color="yellow"><br />he could be recreated to be judged later by those same people<br />whom he made to suffer.</font>

 

[qso1]

Kmarinas86:<br />Like the DOT COM bubble burst, and the many companies that fell because of it. Or like the people who go to play Deal or No Deal, or Lottery Scratch offs and end up ripped off. There are other examples, more or less extreme than the one you felt like pointing out.<br /><br />Me:<br />If I could mention every mind game ever played or entities that fell because of them, I'd never finish posting. I felt like as you put it, pointing out the ones I pointed out because thats what is being discussed here, phenomenon, not dot com.<br /><br />Kmar:<br />Also, a person needing to fulfill a mission does not desire death....<br /><br />Me:<br />I have no idea where your going here except, tell Marshall Applewhites followers who believed they were fullfilling a mission when they were told they needed to discard (AKA suicide) their crude vessels (Bodies) to attain eternity aboard some alleged UFO flying along the Comet Hale Bopp.<br /><br />Now I never said Rael urged people to commit suicide, I said when people who follow self appointed leaders of a religion more or less, that in extreme cases for which I cited two well known examples.<br /><br />Even so, the research I did on Rael indicated he wrote a book in 1974-75 about the Elohim and that this message was given to him by a UFO while at or exploring near a volcano. I may not have the details exact but one thing I know for sure.<br /><br />Rael is a man. A man making an extraordinary claim and gaining followers as a result. I do not trust such people as we have too many of them. Some are called politicians. The bottom line for me is that Rael is just a man. What gives him any special knowledge over any other man (Or woman). Astronomers have not found any planet of the Elohim (Alleged to be 1 to 4 Ly apparently not orbiting anything). Astronomers too are just people but they provide actual evidence or proof of their observations.<br /><br />If you choose to follow, believe, or just like the guys ideas, that is your perogative. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Kmarinas/Rael excerpt:<br />If a person suffers too much physically, and if <br />human science is unable to relieve his pain, then he has a right to put an end to his life.<br /><br />Me:<br />Others say this very same thing, one is Dr Kevorkian and he doesn't need to invoke UFOs or Elohim to say it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">Astronomers too are just people but they provide actual evidence or proof of their observations.</font><br /><br />Simple assumptions tend to be less unimaginative than nature. Hence, a moon like Io was not predicted (irony: that's my simple assumption about our ability to predict), and that is one of many strange cosmic happenings that we could not predict because we were too far from aware of it. Also, proof does not come instantly, since it takes time for the evidence to pile up as a mountain. Also proof can be slapped with other things and such, or lose relevance due to information loss, rendering the proof less utile if not entirely useless.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">NOTHING IS CONSTANT IN TME AND SPACE<br />Question: In the first book [The Book Which Tells the Truth, RaEL 1974], you wrote that the Planet of the Elohim is a little less than a light year away, that being the distance light can travel in one year or nine thousand billion kilometers. Light moves at about three hundred thousand kilometers per second. Our present day scientists state that the closest star outside our sun is located four light years away [Alpha Centauri]. How do you explain this difference?<br /><br />RaEL’s reply: The Elohim do not want us to know exactly where their planet is located. This is quite understandable when we consider Man’s persistence towards destruction, even though the level of technology on Earth is still fairly primitive.<br /><br />All that will be revealed in more detail when they will officially arrive at the Embassy that we will build for them. In the meantime, we can only ask questions.<br />Scientific members of our Movement have put forth a hypothesis: the distance between their planet and ours could be about four light years by following the light which could be moving in a pronounced curve, but would be only one light year away if we traveled in a straight line. That is a possibility.<br /><br />I might add that light does not mo</font>

 

[qso1]

Kmarinas86/Rael excerpt:<br />Simple assumptions tend to be less unimaginative than nature. Hence, a moon like Io was not predicted...<br /><br />Me:<br />This is true, but IMO, the difference is this. Astronomers all the way back to Galileo knew Io existed. None of them claimed anything extraordinary about that moon. No scientists would claim that the beings of our salvation would live on Io and this also applies to any other body in our known Universe. If tomorrow we wake up to headlines stating astronomers found a planet 1 Ly away orbiting no apparent star, they know it would be too far away to claim the Elohim were there without better evidence. Then any evidence would have to be peer reviewed and claimed as evidence of beings rather than stating that they are the Elohim and are there to save us.<br /><br />And yes, proof does not come instantly, science itself is normally an incremental process. The BB for example, we will probably never have proof of that.<br /><br />I should also point out that we do not yet have proof of any ET visitations here on Earth but...it could come tomorrow, it could come 200 years from now.<br /><br />Kmarinas86/Rael excerpt:<br />RaEL’s reply: The Elohim do not want us to know exactly where their planet is located. This is quite understandable when we consider Man’s persistence towards destruction, even though the level of technology on Earth is still fairly primitive.<br /><br />Me:<br />Again, just my opinion but if the Elohim are that worried about us, why even tell Rael?<br /><br />Kmarinas86/Rael excerpt:<br />All that will be revealed in more detail when they will officially arrive at the Embassy that we will build for them.<br /><br />Me:<br />Raels no spring chicken anymore, has construction of this embassy even started yet? If not, wouldn't that make you wonder?<br /><br />Kmarinas86/Rael excerpt:<br />Scientific members of our Movement have put forth a hypothesis: the distance between their planet and ours could be about four light years by fol <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">so what data does he have to support the idea that light does not move at the same speed in all strata of the Universe?</font><br /><br />Different link: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/5001<br /><br />Albert Einstein (The General Theory of Relativity: Chapter 22 - A Few Inferences from the General Principle of Relativity)<br /><font color="yellow">In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies with position. Now we might think that as a consequence of this, the special theory of relativity and with it the whole theory of relativity would be laid in the dust. But in reality this is not the case. We can only conclude that the special theory of relativity cannot claim an unlinlited domain of validity ; its results hold only so long as we are able to disregard the influences of gravitational fields on the phenomena (e.g. of light)."</font><br /><br />Actually, if you assume a standard clock, say the second on earth at sea level, you will notice a difference between the second of this clock and the second of a clock on top of Mt. Everest - assuming that these devices are identical. An experiment measuring the speed of light on top of Mt. Everest will give the same result as an experiment measuring the speed of light at sea level. But, now it is obvious that the experiments themselves are being executed at different rates. They're different rates because of how initally synchronized clocks will desynchronize after being subjected to a change altitude - Gravitational Time Dilation.

 

[qso1]

Fair enough. The only problem is, I'm not entirely convinced that all of Einsteins data will hold true. Possible future breakthroughs in the understanding of how light behaves could change it. Even if it doesn't The 1 Ly to 4 Ly distance to the alleged Elohim planet is a distance that can be measured pretty accurately using simple trigonometric parallax. If light behaves this radically, we probably have no real hope of interstellar travel as it would be like pinning down an elusive moving target.<br /><br />Ultimately however, I just don't put a whole lot of faith in someone born in my lifetime. I'm not even sure about traditional Christianity which is why I'm pretty much agnostic. I'm sure about Atheism...it cannot be proven. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[imrippinit]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4521482851149317053<br />http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-93485617365460579 <br /><br />(1st link) They are watching white streaks coming down from their upper right (center screen) to their lower left. You can see 3 of them during the clip. The "wheel/chariot of fire" appears first between the towers and then she sees it at one of the infamous impact points.<br /><br />(2nd clip) Without speculating on what is their purpose (as you might expect the explanations range from hoax to time travelers, from demons to angels) here is another clip that examines the "wheel's" movements at slow speeds.

 

[ethereality]

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[MeteorWayne]

Must be old links.<br /><br />I'm more worried about the UWO's on the ground when I'm in the city.<br />Of course the EFO's make up for it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[imrippinit]

sorry about that... Edited

 

[MeteorWayne]

Thanx, at least we got to see it.<br /><br />The fact that the first video is from a site called SciFi.com doesn't help it's credibility.<br /><br />Without knowing more about how the video was obtained and processed it's hard to judge.<br /><br />To me parts 1 and 2 look like blimps. A very common sight over the Big Apple. It's not clear that the 3rd part is related. Could be an F-something fighter accelerating upward, and may or may not be related to the objects of the first two sections. <br /><br />I'll watch it again a few more times.<br /><br />Meteor Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>