What is the oldest?

[pioneer0333]

I was thinking, "what is the oldest known galaxy"? Seriously, what is it? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[tshearn]

Hi, they say its this one.<br />http://news.nationalgeographic.org/news/2005/02/0217_050217_space.html

 

[vogon13]

We see all other galaxies as they were at least a million years ago, and many, in the billions, our own galaxy would be around 100,000 years out of date tops. So ours be the oldest we see. The rest look younger.<br /><br />Probably not the answer you wanted......<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[harmonicaman]

I'd have to agree with Vogon. Since we are the oldest point in the universe, the Milky Way must therefore be the oldest galaxy. Note that every other point in the universe shares this very same perspective - they appear to themselves to be the oldest place in the universe.<br /><br />...and I'm sure that's not the answer you were looking for.

 

[vogon13]

We see = apparent.<br /><br />{Mankind's collective reading and comprehension skills continue to slide}<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[someone_else]

OK - then let me post the question in a different way. What is the farthest known galaxy from us?

 

[vogon13]

The barest faintest smudge in the Hubble Deep Field photo would be your candidate.<br /><br />(there be quite a few to pick from)<br /><br />Sorry you don't seem to be making any head way on your query.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[someone_else]

It wasn't really my query to begin with but I understood the original poster's question and thought I would see if I could get an answer for him/her by posing it in a different manner. I find that posts are often taken quite literally here and sometimes that will affect the way one needs to word an inquiry. I know that revelation may come as a complete shock to some. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[newtonian]

TSHearn - Thank you for the link.<br /><br />Oldest galaxy cluster - 12.7 years old!<br /><br />Are those galaxies red in the photos because of red shift?<br />

 

[newtonian]

stevehw33 - The question was: what is the oldest KNOWN galaxy. I doubt pioneer meant for us to say what the oldest unknown galaxy is!<br /><br />You are, of course, correct, btw.<br /><br />TS Hearn gave us the oldest known in the sense someone else noted - i.e. the furthest away.<br /><br />But that was the oldest known cluster, not galaxy.<br /><br />Yes, I guess it would be the oldest galaxy in Hubble deep field photo - but which one is it and how old is the view - i.e. how far is the furthest galaxy thus far observed?<br /><br />And yes, I know, what we see may not exist anymore!

 

[harmonicaman]

Since a quasar infers the existence of a galaxy, I would have to go with the most distant observation to date:<br /><br />"The quasar, called SDSS J1148+5251 is at a redshift (z) of 6.43, and is found in the direction of the constellation of Ursa Major. It is some 13 billion light years away, and we are seeing it when the universe was very young - only 900 million years after the Big Bang."

 

[newtonian]

harmonicaman - I assume the source you quote estimates the age of the universe to be 13.9 billion years.<br /><br />What happenned to astronomer Wendy Friedman's estimate of the age of the universe at 12 billion years old?

 

[harmonicaman]

Unfortunately, it's difficult to get any two cosmologists to agree on the age of the universe. Current thinking puts the maximum age at about 15 - 16 billion years, but several models show it to be a bit younger. <br /><br />Since the universe is expanding ay an increasing rate, we just can't see back far enough to be very precise...

 

[newtonian]

harmonicaman - Agreed.<br /><br />BTW - in view of your user name - did you ever hear of the Cosmic Symphony, as in a recent Scientific American article.<br /><br />This has to do with a different type of fine tuning of the big bang itself, with harmonious overtones - the oldest tune! Cosmologist link this harmony to structure in our universe - including galaxies.<br /><br />Of course, it is not that simple.

 

[harmonicaman]

Didn't read the article, but I agree that all the matter and energy (and probably time itself) in the universe is basically waves. String theory seems to demonstrate that the basic unit of everything is a vibration.

 

[newtonian]

harmonicaman - It was the February, 2004, Scientific American article entitled "The Cosmic Symphony:"<br /><br />"New observations of the cosmic microwave background radiation<br />show that the early universe resounded with harmonious oscillations<br />By Wayne Hu and Martin White"<br /><br />The article compared the unique and beautiful way these oscillations harmonize as being like a strativarius (sp?) violin - especially interesting were the overtones.<br /><br />Would you like me to quote an excerpt?

 

[harmonicaman]

Sure! <br /><br />I seem to remember another article that attempted to describe the "Color" of the universe and I think they decided that it was a shade of brown...

 

[newtonian]

"Since then, scientists have employed ever more sophisticated<br />instruments to map the temperature variations of the<br />CMB. The culmination of these efforts was the launch in 2001<br />of the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP),<br />which travels around the sun in an orbit 1.5 million kilometers<br />beyond Earth’s. The results from WMAP reveal that the<br />CMB temperature variations follow a distinctive pattern predicted<br />by cosmological theory: the hot and cold spots in the radiation<br />fall into characteristic sizes. What is more, researchers<br />have been able to use these data to precisely estimate the age,<br />composition and geometry of the universe. The process is analogous<br />to determining the construction of a musical instrument<br />by carefully listening to its notes. But the cosmic symphony is<br />produced by some very strange players and is accompanied by even stranger coincidences that cry out for explanation." -Scientific American, 2/04, pp 44-46.<br /><br />"The wave that<br />causes the region to reach maximum negative displacement exactly<br />at recombination is the fundamental wave of the early universe.<br />The overtones have wavelengths that are integer fractions<br />of the fundamental wavelength. Oscillating two, three or more<br />times as quickly as the fundamental wave, these overtones cause<br />smaller regions of space to reach maximum displacement, either<br />positive or negative, at recombination.<br />How do cosmologists deduce this pattern from the CMB?<br />They plot the magnitude of the temperature variations against<br />the sizes of the hot and cold spots in a graph called a power<br />spectrum [see box on page 51]. The results show that the regions<br />with the greatest variations subtend about one degree<br />across the sky, or nearly twice the size of the full moon. (At the<br />time of recombination, these regions had diameters of about<br />one million light-years, but because of the 1,000-fold expansion<br />of the univers