What's mean't by "mining it" in Apollo14 mission transcript?

[JonClarke]

aphh has clearly stated a dozen times that he believes the landings occurred. Can we please stop accusing him of that???

The trouble Wayne is that aphh is very inconsistent here.

On one hand he/she claims they believe the landings actually occurred. On the other there are statements like There is little concrete evidence that any activity ever took place on the surface of the Moon... and of course claiming that under Occam's razor fake missions are more likely than real ones.

It seems like trying to have the cake and eat it too. On one hand trying to appear clever and superior like all the HBers because of their undermasking of the "conspiracy" (although the more people know about Apollo and the more skills they have to assess the evidence the less likely they appear to doubt the record). On the other when pressed, backing away by saying he or actually do think we went and so apparently avoiding the full consequences of being a denier.

If aphh really believes the images are fakes, then he she should to not only give evidence why they think they are fakes (which they have done, although apparently through fundamental misunderstanding of the images andf what they show), but also supply an estimate of what proportion of the image (and video) record is fake (all of it, some of it, what proportion of the hours of video and tens of thousands of images?) and supply a reason why this was done.

Further, if she or he disbelieve the image record what evidence to they find convincing that people whent to the Moon? That is why I asked about the rocks. Does aphh think they are fakes too? If not, why not? If why does he or she disbelieve the image record of where the rocks (and cores and regolith samples) were collected and how? If they are, then he or she needs to supply reasons as to why they think they are, and list either their own expertise to determine this, or the expertise of the source they quote.

I would also like a statement as to whether thinks the images and samples from all the other lunar surface missions are also fake - Luna 9, 13, 16, 20, 23, 24, Lunokhod 1 & 2, Surveyor 1, 3, 5, & 6 - and if so why.

 

[Smersh]

But images and other data are a very different issue than voice recordings. We have voice recordings for all the moon walks and other critical phases, we have transcripts of the rest. What is actually gained in knowledge from web access to the remaining recordings that isn't available from transcripts?

Firstly, a complete historical record of one of the greatest achievements in the history of mankind. Secondly, openness with the public, who if they wish can then check the accuracy of the transcripts against the actual recordings. They can also decide for themselves what was said in instances of possibly garbled transmissions, in which question marks appear in the transcripts.

 

[JonClarke]

But images and other data are a very different issue than voice recordings. We have voice recordings for all the moon walks and other critical phases, we have transcripts of the rest. What is actually gained in knowledge from web access to the remaining recordings that isn't available from transcripts?

Firstly, a complete historical record of one of the greatest achievements in the history of mankind. Secondly, openness with the public, who if they wish can then check the accuracy of the transcripts against the actual recordings. They can also decide for themselves what was said in instances of possibly garbled transmissions, in which question marks appear in the transcripts.

Sure, it would be nice to have it on line, I have no doubt they will go on line eventually (the bits that are not already there, that is), but it is not a high priority. All the data, barring ones kept confidential for privacy reasons, would be generally available, just not on line. To access it you would have to travel to the archives, which is what serious researchers do.

 

[MeteorWayne]

And without someone to pay for it, it's not going it happen anytime soon. NASA's budget is stretched far enough with the current missions. If you want someone to spend time tracking down and translating tapes, you cough up the money or the time to do it. There is no rooom in NASA's budget to undertake such efforts.

 

[CalliArcale]

Absolutely! And what I said earlier about the reaons why the mission voice recordings should be made available.

But images and other data are a very different issue than voice recordings. We have voice recordings for all the moon walks and other critical phases, we have transcripts of the rest. What is actually gained in knowledge from web access to the remaining recordings that isn't available from transcripts?

The thrill of hearing their voices, of course! I know that's of minimal scientific value, but it's awfully cool all the same. Gives me shivers. A mere transcript can't do that (at least, not for me). I realize that's purely emotional, but it's a strong emotion. For those of us too young to have been there, it would be very cool.

It's not part of the scientific return from the mission, sure. But it's part of the *emotional* return. Why do we have museums and not just research libraries? Why let the public see some of this stuff? Because it's awesome, that's why.

 

[JonClarke]

The thrill of hearing their voices, of course! I know that's of minimal scientific value, but it's awfully cool all the same. Gives me shivers. A mere transcript can't do that (at least, not for me). I realize that's purely emotional, but it's a strong emotion. For those of us too young to have been there, it would be very cool.

It's not part of the scientific return from the mission, sure. But it's part of the *emotional* return. Why do we have museums and not just research libraries? Why let the public see some of this stuff? Because it's awesome, that's why.

After all, the exciting bits are already available (launch landing, EVAs). The rest is just house keeping and other routine stuff. Sure it would be nice, buit its not a priority.

I do suspect a conspiratorial subtext to some of these demands that Apollo must release final transcripts, all audio onto the internet. Otherwise they might be hiding something. The material is available if people want it, they just have to do a bit of legwork that is all. Of course not matter what is available on the internet (or elsewhere) it won't satisfy some people.

 

[CalliArcale]

Oh, of course it's not a priority. I believe I spoke quite extensively to that point earlier, explaining why NASA hasn't put that stuff up on the Web. I'm just greedy, and would always like more. ;-)