WHEN ARE THE NEWLY DESIGNED SPACE SHUTTLES COMING!!!!!!!

[danwoodard]

Using the same contractors mean sticking with 30-year-old SRBs. Huge facilities needed to stack and launch, billions in mods to LC-39, the MLPs, and the VAB. The largest available ELV, Delta IV, is already flying and has the RS-68, which has twice the thrust of the SSME wih only 10% of the parts. Channel-wall cooling! The only new engine made in the US in the last 20 years. Efficient integration with just a couple of hundred people! No hoisting of the booster at all! The fixed umbilical tower even has an elevator. Really all it would need for manned launch is a third swingarm for crew access. Regretably, it appears there has been no formal tradeoff study to objectively consider the alternative launch vehicles.

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">Using the same contractors mean sticking with 30-year-old SRBs. ...</font>/i><br /><br />I don't know enough about the differences in technologies, operational costs, etc. to make an informed decision on the various launch vehicle options. But I do believe that politics are an integral part of any large program that is mostly funded by politicians.</i>

 

[john_316]

O yeah! It is all politics driven. Thats the truth and its true.<br /><br /><i>ATK the makers of the SRB is in Utah a heavy Republican state and many contributers to Dubyas re-election.</i><br /><br /><br />Lets look back for a moment at the past shall we.....<br /><br />Kennedy Gave us Apollo and the War in Vietnam (Some refuse to believe that don't they!)<br /><br />Johnson gave us cuts in Apollo so no moon base was going to be built and continued War in Vietnam for corporate America, and during this time the Civil Rights movement krept in and the assasinations of both Mr King and Mr Kennedy took a large focus off of space. We beat the Russians to the moon (in Nixons Whitehouse)and as you would guess it the Space Race was over.<br /><br />Nixon went with the STS (ie Shuttle) and scrapped the life of Apollo and its true successor the Moon Base.<br /><br />Ford gave us our own version of a BMD to counter the Soviet threat (early SDI) with Directed Energy Weapons (DEW) development and a crude SDI frame with ABM along side it.<br /><br />Carter was too busy with the economy and put DEW on hold and continued with STS. He also cancelled the B-1A bomber program. The Iran Fiasco destroyed his Presidentship. And as you would guess the tiles for the Columbia where 2 years behind schedule. Would you know it they would launch the Shuttle once Reagan got in office and did so shortly afterwards.<br /><br />Reagan wanted SS Freedom, SDI, NASP, Shuttles, but built a limited time 500 ship navy, got the B-1B going again, got the blackprojects up and running and we got some kool stuff and some things matured and came to light because of his relentless will to crush the evil empire. We got the F-117 and B-2 bombers. But Challenger went out in a blaze of glory on his watch and this started the change in NASA mentality and its reluctance in the way it operated.<br /><br />Bush Sr wanted Mars by 2018 but we got (cancelled till son takes office) Son of Mars by 2035 (maybe)and he started the BRAC thing with

 

[revolutionary]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>And what about the billions of dollars of equipment we launched up there? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />All is not lost, that billions of dollars of equipment was essential in providing training for many individuals. That training alone is far more important. I personally do not see the station as a cost-effective central hub for continuing to train scientists. If we invest our most talented scientists into this endeavor, we will be putting to waste some of the finest minds. The training they have achieved so far would be compromised if we continued to invest our scientific resources into this pointless endeavor and away from more worthwhile pursuits.<br /><br />Our scientists and resources should be used to construct a U.S. Space Station

 

[elguapoguano]

<font color="yellow">Oh by the way the next person who blames Nixon for Vietnam, I think I'll beat them severely with a can of relative bearing grease.</font><br />No, I blame Nixon for screwing the Space Program. It was his call that gave us no moon base, no space station, a budget reduced Space Shuttle (bye bye flyback boosters, and so sorry for a truely reusable two stage system). Instead I blame Nixon for leaving us circling in LEO with no where to go. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ff0000"><u><em>Don't let your sig line incite a gay thread ;>)</em></u></font> </div>

 

[spayss]

I first voted for Nixon in 1972. Trust me, almost nobody gave a damn about more Moon or space exploration...not Nixon, McGovern, the Congress or the Senate...and especially not the American people. <br /><br />The Congress is the one who spends the cash..not the President. Democrats were even more vociferous of cutting space spending and directing more fundsit on social programs...where do you think all those nice high rise ghettos came from?

 

[mlorrey]

By the time Nixon was in office, all the promising programs were cancelled or gutted by McNamara and Johnson's need to win the Vietnam War and War on Poverty, and the socialists like Mondale were whining about 'spending money in space' when there were 'so many better things to spend it on here on earth'.<br /><br />Nixon was no prince, he certainly supported his share of expansion of government programs, but at that point everyone in power was using their authority to contain the baby boomers whining with bread and circuses.

 

[spayss]

Presidents and the Congress aren't going to lose votes to promote or oppose a spending program the size of NASA....it's just not big enough in the scheme of importance or government spending. If the American people WANT space exploration there will be support for it by elected officials. Politicians aren't stupid and respond quite well to how the wind is blowing among the electorate.<br /><br />Don't underestimate value of writing a letter to your congressman, senator or whoever and telling them quite frankly that your vote depends on more funding for space.

 

[john_316]

I think everyones points are well taken.....<br /><br />If they give me a billion dollars before July. I'll get some good engineers and technicians, any scrap yard and ALCOA and access to any NASA/Contractor technical specs and mothballed or retired equipment I would get us a 6 man crewed CEV/CTV up and flying before fall 2010 that is safe and affordable and less than what the big 4 want for it..<br /><br />I just have that much confidence...<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /> <br />If they would have gotten the upperstage work begun now and the CEV to begin cutting metal soon we could man-rate the Delta-4H or Atlas-5H and have a launcher or launchers in 2-3 years.<br /><br />If Mike where to get the people motivated... If some of them looked beyond their paychecks maybe things can get done ahead of schedule and underbudget. Make the Contractors build the CEV together. One the CEV and the other the SM and yet another or both the Upperstage. Offer them an incentive to get it done underbudget within in safety margins and I bet we will can get it done alot less than what they are asking for. I hate to say it its time to bring in the small companies like orbital and such because they seem to embelish these types of tasks.<br /><br />2010 sounds better than 2012...<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br />