Why is "electricity" the forbidden topic of astronomy?

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>A FEW blobs of gas (which BTW, most of the images on the page you linked to don't work) does nothing to justify your position that the power source of the sun if from intergalactic currents. <br /> Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV></p><p>The inflow is mostly in form of electrons whereas the outbound flow is mostly in forms of positively charged paritcles.&nbsp; What we primarily observe in SOHO images are the waves of mostly positively charged particles flowing out of the sun, not the electrons flowing back inward toward the sun.&nbsp; The relatively negative charge of the heliosphere is what accelerates the positively charged particles as they leave the photosophere.&nbsp; There is a charge attraction process that is responsible for the solar wind acceleration.&nbsp; The atmospheric events we observe on the sun are in fact duplicated in Birkleland's experiments.&nbsp; Is that pure coincidence in your opinion? &nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[Aaupaaq]

<p>Don't shoot the messenger!&nbsp; That is why, I've been saying magnets and gravity is one, manifesting in three different variations.&nbsp; 1)magnetic objects, repel and attracts, 2)non magnetic objects, manifests in various weight difference between the various elements of matter, and 3) cell to cell or atom to atom force, which connects all matter in the universe.&nbsp; This magnetic force is what drives everything.&nbsp; </p><p>That is why the young galaxies are very magnetic.&nbsp; The universal magnet is progressing, to it's endtime, somehow.&nbsp; Then after that, we're going to be changed in a matter of faster than a blink of an eye, when that happens. </p><p>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080724221049.htm </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> We always walked on water, like skating! </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA178876 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Besides the acceleration of the solar wind particles as they leave the photosphere?&nbsp; How does that "magically" happen from an *internal* energy source?&nbsp;&nbsp; Why is He+2 selectively favored over He+1 by many multiples?That depends on a lot of variables.&nbsp; We do see easily detectable flows of electrons all along the surface of the sun and "blowing out" into space too, and even being accelerated as they leave the surface.&nbsp; The fact you don't realize that you should be taking it seriously now is quite a problem. Look up the term "strahl" in relationship to solar wind.&nbsp; I think you'll find plenty of materials for us to discuss. <br /> Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>Can you point me to one single piece of observational evidence that shows an external energy source for the sun to do the things it does?&nbsp; If we scale up Birkelands experiments and apply it to the sun, we should see an enormous, easily detecable flow of electrons into the sun.&nbsp; When you show me this influx of energy to the sun, I'll take the Electric Sun Hypothesis serious.&nbsp; </p><p>Hell... I'll become a full convert.</p><p>A simple link will suffice.&nbsp; No opinions or thoughts and no trying to turn the tables by asking a question with a question.&nbsp; [Edited to add to original request:&nbsp; No irrelavent data that has nothing to do with the original request]</p><p>Just a simple link.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p>This seems like another very interesting paper on this topic.</p><p>It talks about the inbound and outbound frequency of the flow of electrons and how they fluxuate. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA178876 <br /> Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>Strahl and polar rain have nothing to do with an external source supplying the sun with energy.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Don't shoot the messenger!&nbsp; That is why, I've been saying magnets and gravity is one, manifesting in three different variations.&nbsp; 1)magnetic objects, repel and attracts, 2)non magnetic objects, manifests in various weight difference between the various elements of matter, and 3) cell to cell or atom to atom force, which connects all matter in the universe.&nbsp; This magnetic force is what drives everything.&nbsp; That is why the young galaxies are very magnetic.&nbsp; The universal magnet is progressing, to it's endtime, somehow.&nbsp; Then after that, we're going to be changed in a matter of faster than a blink of an eye, when that happens. <br /> Posted by Aaupaaq</DIV></p><p>Your brain is not simply a "magnetic" device, it's an "electromagnetic" device with electrical current running through it.&nbsp; Assuming the unvierse is also "aware", it too is "electro"magnetic in nature, not "magnetic". </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your brain is not simply a "magnetic" device, it's an "electromagnetic" device with electrical current running through it.&nbsp; Assuming the unvierse is also "aware", it too is "electro"magnetic in nature, not "magnetic". <br />Posted by michaelmozina</DIV><br /><br />You two should get along great.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This seems like another very interesting paper on this topic.It talks about the inbound and outbound frequency of the flow of electrons and how they fluxuate. <br /> Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>Interesting indeed.&nbsp; Still has nothing to do with my request.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[UFmbutler]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Don't shoot the messenger!&nbsp; That is why, I've been saying magnets and gravity is one, manifesting in three different variations.&nbsp; 1)magnetic objects, repel and attracts, 2)non magnetic objects, manifests in various weight difference between the various elements of matter, and 3) cell to cell or atom to atom force, which connects all matter in the universe.&nbsp; This magnetic force is what drives everything.&nbsp; That is why the young galaxies are very magnetic.&nbsp; The universal magnet is progressing, to it's endtime, somehow.&nbsp; Then after that, we're going to be changed in a matter of faster than a blink of an eye, when that happens. <br /> Posted by Aaupaaq</DIV></p><p>Have you EVER taken a physics class(at least, while not under the influence of drugs)?&nbsp; I've seen your thread in the physics forum about this ludicrous idea...your statements make absolutely no sense.&nbsp; You say the magnetic force drives everything and then say "that is why young galaxies are very magnetic"...how does that follow at all?&nbsp; It doesn't.&nbsp; It doesn't even make sense.&nbsp; Please go educate yourself if you're going to try to post in a science forum.&nbsp; Even in middle school classes they'd realize how dumb this "theory" is. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Aaupaaq]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your brain is not simply a "magnetic" device, it's an "electromagnetic" device with electrical current running through it.&nbsp; Assuming the unvierse is also "aware", it too is "electro"magnetic in nature, not "magnetic". <br /> Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>Only magnetic objects can attract or move a dead object that is magnetic.&nbsp; And since we're not magnetic you say, but we can attract and repel using energy that we ate earlier. &nbsp; Think about it.&nbsp; A non magnetic will not be moved unless you, or someone else moves it from it's current location, to a new location.&nbsp; By itself, it will do nothing for the next millenia or something else moves it. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> We always walked on water, like skating! </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>You two should get along great.... <br /> Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV></p><p>I have a favor to ask you Wayne.&nbsp; You're the only one I trust to give us an accurate explanation.&nbsp; I noticed that on the largest (blue) Hinode video that that there is a noticable amount of movement of the photosphere relative to the rest of image.&nbsp; I'm assuming that's an artifict related to an overlay process (photosphere on top of other wavelengths), but could you verify that for us, and explain why it's moving in relationship to the other items in the image?&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Strahl and polar rain have nothing to do with an external source supplying the sun with energy.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>Um, how do you know that?&nbsp; What exactly are you looking for, and what exactly would you expect to observe based on Birkeland's experiments or Alfven's circuit theories? </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[docm]

<span>1263 posts and you guys haven't got this figured out yet? </span><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>1263 posts and you guys haven't got this figured out yet? <br /> Posted by docm</DIV></p><p>Evidently not. &nbsp; Welcome.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Um, how do you know that?&nbsp; What exactly are you looking for, and what exactly would you expect to observe based on Birkeland's experiments or Alfven's circuit theories? <br /> Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>With this comment, I conclude that you believe that providing me material on strahl, polar rain, and electron flux in the Earth's geomagnetic tail is evidence that the Sun is being powered by an external source?</p><p>I think it is obvious what I am looking for.&nbsp; Birkeland used streams of electrons to power his terrella.&nbsp; I wan't to see how you scale that up to the size of the sun and recreate the phenomena we see on the Sun.&nbsp; Mainly, I want to see these enormous amounts of electrons that must be flowing into and powering the sun and causing these externally driven (as you claim) events we see on a regular basis.&nbsp; </p><p>They should be terribly easy to detect and there should be tons of papers written on them.&nbsp; </p><p>Provide ONE.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>1263 posts and you guys haven't got this figured out yet? <br /> Posted by docm</DIV></p><p>This is my daily soap opera.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[UFmbutler]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This is my daily soap opera.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>Haha, that's exactly how I feel about it sometimes.&nbsp; Whenever I'm bored at work&nbsp; I just check to see if any new "episodes" are up. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I have a favor to ask you Wayne.&nbsp; You're the only one I trust to give us an accurate explanation.&nbsp; I noticed that on the largest (blue) Hinode video that that there is a noticable amount of movement of the photosphere relative to the rest of image.&nbsp; I'm assuming that's an artifict related to an overlay process (photosphere on top of other wavelengths), but could you verify that for us, and explain why it's moving in relationship to the other items in the image?&nbsp; <br />Posted by michaelmozina</DIV><br /><br />Won't have time tonight, but I'll take a look tomorrow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><strong>No, it's not due to Alfven</strong> because Alfven only attempted to apply the concept of "frozen" to very dense, non current carrying plasma, not light current carrying plasma.&nbsp;&nbsp; He attributed these events to "circuit reconnection" as the coronal loop paper I provided demonstrates.The "distortion" comes from the mainstream when they attempt to apply this "frozen" idea to light, hot, current carrying plasma.&nbsp;&nbsp; <strong>They are using his one idea like</strong> a sledgehammer and trying to apply it to *everything*, even instances where it does not fit, nor is it applicable. <br />Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>Not only did you manage to twist and misconstrue my words, but you have also&nbsp; managed to contradict yourself within 4 sentences.&nbsp; I don't think that is a record, but it is an impressive demonstration of inconsistency.&nbsp; <br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>1263 posts and you guys haven't got this figured out yet? <br />Posted by docm</DIV><br />&nbsp;Most of us had t his figured out by post no. 2, but getting through to Michael is taking a wee bit longer. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>With this comment, I conclude that you believe that providing me material on strahl, polar rain, and electron flux in the Earth's geomagnetic tail is evidence that the Sun is being powered by an external source?I think it is obvious what I am looking for.&nbsp; Birkeland used streams of electrons to power his terrella.&nbsp; I wan't to see how you scale that up to the size of the sun and recreate the phenomena we see on the Sun.&nbsp; Mainly, I want to see these enormous amounts of electrons that must be flowing into and powering the sun and causing these externally driven (as you claim) events we see on a regular basis.&nbsp; They should be terribly easy to detect and there should be tons of papers written on them.&nbsp; Provide ONE. <br />Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>Yes the current should be easy to detect.&nbsp; Somewhere far back in this thread I did a simple calculation and estimated that if the sun were powered by and external electric current as Michael claims, then that current would produce a magnetic field at the surface of the Earth that would be on the order of 57 million times what is actually observed.</p><p>You might expect the incidence of "nail pops" in the sheet rock in your house to go up a tad.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This is my daily soap opera.&nbsp; Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>I tune in everyday.&nbsp; I just don't like "interactive" soap-operas very much.&nbsp; But, I can enjoy sitting back and watching just as much as the next guy.&nbsp; Lots of interesting information and topics in this thread. There's also alot of baloney. It's not too difficult to figure out which is which.&nbsp; This thread will go down in SDC history though.&nbsp; Or, in flames... Either way, it's a good read. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[l3p3r]

<p>I just can't believe it every time I see this thread at the top of the list... I wonder what super-human stamina these guys have! </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I tune in everyday.&nbsp; I just don't like "interactive" soap-operas very much.&nbsp; But, I can enjoy sitting back and watching just as much as the next guy.&nbsp; Lots of interesting information and topics in this thread. There's also alot of baloney. It's not too difficult to figure out which is which.&nbsp; This thread will go down in SDC history though.&nbsp; Or, in flames... Either way, it's a good read. <br /> Posted by a_lost_packet_</DIV></p><p>I agree.&nbsp; IMO, it's a little bit like "As The Universe Turns", or "General Astronomer". &nbsp; The amusing part from my perspective is that sooner or later the majority of astronomers will have to begin to start recognizing the important role of electricity in space.&nbsp; It's only a question of "when', not "if" from my perspecitve. &nbsp; The technology is just getting too sophisticated to remain ignorant of role of electricity in space forever. &nbsp; Those Hinode images for instance blew giant holes in their "frozen in" concepts about magnetic lines and light plasma.&nbsp; Plasma is very fluidlike in nature.&nbsp; Birkeland already explained these things 100 years ago.&nbsp; It's only a matter of time before our new technologies blow away their old theories.&nbsp; It's interesting to me just watching it all unfold, one image and one movie at a time. </p><p>This particular soap opera is more fun because it's interactive and you get to work at it, or just read through it on your own timing.&nbsp; It's fun. </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>