Why is space travel so boring?

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tomnackid

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100 years ago "functional literacy" was defined as the ability to sign ones name. 50 years ago it was the ability to read a newspaper. Today it is the ability to read AND write on a level that would have astonished most of the "regular" people in our grandparents generation. The problem is that jaded, dispirited old farts disregard WHAT kids today read and write and totally ignore HOW MUCH and at WHAT LEVEL. Whenever I point out to an English professor friend of mine the incontrovertible fact that the internet is responsible for more kids reading and (more importantly in my opinion) writing more than at any time in history he always responds with "Yeah but that's not REAL reading and writing." In other words, "reading and writing on the internet didn't exist when I was growing up so it obviously is inconsequential." People had similar attitudes in the past. "Writing on a word processor can never be as good as writing on a typewriter". "Writing on a typewriter can never equal writing by hand." "Writing for the stage is not REAL writing like writing a novel is." Yadda, yadda, yadda. Old farts (and some not so old farts) are good at trying to spoil things for everyone.
 
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MeteorWayne

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I don't think that's true. I'm an old fart, but I can clearly see that you posess the ability to write clearly, using proper grammer and spelling.<br />Unfortunately, that is becoming a rarer quality, not only among kids, but among adults. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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tomnackid

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Well I'm an old fart too! Dats why I right so good <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <br /><br />But seriously, we shouldn't confuse inexperience and the general tendency for kids TRY to piss off and confuse adults for lack of intelligence or poor education. I wish I cold have grown up today were its not that unusual to see kids running their own internet businesses, publishing their own comics, making their own professional level motion pictures. When I was a kid it seems like you either played sports, or you kept your head down and hoped for the best.
 
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MeteorWayne

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I still cannot deal with people (I'm talking americans here) who cannot speak and write english.<br />When I had the opportunity to screen resumes for a technical job, any one with a spelling or grammer error went in the trash before the rest of it was even read. If you don't care enough about how your resume presents your image, then you will not care enough about the quality required for the job.<br /><br />I guess I'm a curmudgeonly old fart <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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tplank

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Hey, I'm the Curmudgeonly one here.<br /><br />I really don't want to do the research to argue the point and it is going back more years than I care to admit into my memory banks. I do not remember the names on the research even so it would take some very time consuming digging. However, I can say I am certain that the definition of functional literacy used in that research was much higher than signing one’s name.<br /><br />I think that people are much better educated and literate if you look at the top five or ten percent of Americans. Certainly when you look at the people that come here you are looking at a terribly skewed sampling of individuals. I think the fall-off is rapid though I have no data to back that up.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>The Disenfranchised Curmudgeon</p><p>http://tonyplank.blogspot.com/ </p> </div>
 
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halman

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VanillaCoke,<br /><br />Space exploration should never be exciting in and of itself, because that implies a lack of planning, or the failure of some essential system. What is exciting is the opening of new frontiers, the acquistion of knowledge, the change in understanding of where we are. We have been conditioned through television to expect excitement in everything, because that is the emphasis that the network executives chose 50 years ago. Not to be educational, not to be informative, but to be entertaining. So, we have come to expect entertainment in everything, and have, for the most part, lost the ability to entertain ourselves.<br /><br />The United States has never had a long-term policy regarding space exploration, instead reacting to perceived challanges to its technilogical superiority. The Apollo program was a dead end, which raised our expectations to unrealistic levels, because of the incredible feats required for it to be a success. The Space Shuttle was the attempt by NASA engineers in the early 1970's to create a sustainable, long-term space program, which would allow for the construction of a space station, and then the construction of a Lunar shuttle, so that we could go to the Moon on a regular basis. Because the Air Force was convinced that manned access to space was essential to national security, the Space Shuttle was built, but no money for anything beyond that was approved. In many ways, the Space Shuttle was a greater challenge than the Apollo program, but because it did not seem to 'go anywhere,' it lost the public's eye.<br /><br />Perhaps the greatest detriment to the space program has been the philosophy of short-term profits over everything else. This mindset has pervaded most of life in the United States, resulting in a gradual erosion of our industrial strength, our academic abilities, and our economic well-being. Because space exploration is something which does not pay off immediately, it is constantly being short-changed in <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>
 
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halcyondays

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<<<<br /> any one with a spelling or grammer error went in the trash....<br /> />>><br /><br />Hmmm.
 
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MeteorWayne

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What do you mean Hmmm?<br /><br />Are you saying that someone who would send a resume with obvious english errors in it should be considered for a job where quality is the highest priority? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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halcyondays

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I mean you can't spell "grammar". Which wouldn't matter a row of beans, other than what you said above.
 
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MeteorWayne

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Well, three things.<br />I'm a LOUSY typist. If good typing were part of a job requirement, I'm screwed! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />This isn't my resume.<br />And sincerely, thanx (that's intentional) for pointing it out, it's one boo boo I'll make sure to proofread.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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spacester

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A very interesting thread!<br /><br />Regarding functional illiteracy, just to add something to the mix, I see two un-spoken-of trends that play into our perceptions. After all, none of us were young adults 80 years ago, so it's largely a matter of perception at work in this whole discussion. <br /><br />First, 100 years ago some of the upper crust were still receiving the 'classical' education - greek, latin, etc and while 'modern' reforms were under way, the ability to communicate on a different level than the common middle class led to a strong Ivory Tower elitism perception.<br /><br />The other thing about the good ol' days is the omission of remembering the seedy side of things. If the good old days were so good, what was <i>Pottersville</i> in <i>It's a wonderful life!"</i> all about? There was always a 'bad' part of town, and it always seemed to have its own internal economy, it was pervasive and persistent. Where did Billiards get such a bad rep if not from all those pool halls in all those seedy parts of town? Is it just me that thinks we've moved forward in this area?<br /><br />I'm not sure either of those two aspects of the good old days are considered as much as they should be.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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baktothemoon

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Can we get back on topic please, off the literacy/illiteracy topic.
 
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tplank

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"Can we get back on topic please, off the literacy/illiteracy topic."<br /><br />Um, did you actually read the thread? Just curious. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>The Disenfranchised Curmudgeon</p><p>http://tonyplank.blogspot.com/ </p> </div>
 
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webtaz99

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I think it's great that most people find space stuff boring. That will help keep the government out of the space development revolution (no public support = no tax-derrived funding), and see to it that fewer people compete for the jobs generated thereby. Let the dullards stay here on Earth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Yes indeedy!<br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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j05h

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"The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us are going to the Stars."<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>
 
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halman

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webtaz99,<br /><br />I don't follow your logic. No government investment in space exploration means substantially fewer jobs in space related fields. Substantially fewer jobs means lower rates of pay, and less incentive to enter career fields focused on space exploration, which means fewer math and science majors, which means smaller pool of talent to create new launch systems, life support systems, etcetera, which means greater delay in progress in space exploration. Everyone will be staying on Earth longer the less investment, public and private, which is made in space exploration. The people who do the work are still people, who need to make a living. Whether their salary comes from taxpayer dollars or someones personal fortune doesn't make much difference to them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>
 
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yoda9999

Guest
Space travel isn't exciting because it's too expensive to be exciting. There's a total adversion to risk, since billions are invested in the crew training, systems, launch vehicles, etc. It's not like the Age of Discovery, where a single bank could invest a few hundred pounds on a ship manned by sailors and riffraff. Space travel is about a total dependence on systems. If the systems fail, you die. There's not much the human body can do except die if the systems fail. So the systems have to be built very well.<br /><br />Space travel will be more exciting when it's cheap enough to be available to ordinary consumers, is affordable like taking a plane, and people don't mind occasional accidents, deaths, radiation poisonings, wierd ailments, etc. Then we can have movies like Snakes on a Shuttle or Murder on Moon Base One. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />
 
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JonClarke

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Some people define excitement in terms of adrenaline rushes, the unexpected, life threatening danger. Is this what we really want? Every mission hanging on the edge of disaster? <br /><br />Real life excitment of this kind is not exciting. It's horrifying. It is Challenger, Columbia, September 11. Battlefield reality TV will never take off. People may be glued to the TV while a mine rescue is happening, but the public will want answers as to why people lives and livelihoods were endangered. <br /><br />So why should space travel be exciting? Space travel should be routine. If this is boring so be it. We don't expect travelling by sea or air to be exciting, why should space travel be any different? <br /><br />Believe me, people will find missions ot Mars boring. After all people will be just eating, sleeping, talking, fiddling with machinery inside and outside the spacecraft, looking and and picking up a bunch red rocks.<br /><br />But there is another kind of excitment, the excitment that comes from exploring the unknown, of crossing frontiers (whether personal, cultural, physical, or intellectual), from doing what was thought impossible and returning safely home, from making the heroic the stuff of every day. The not so much a visceral thrill, but a sense of acomplishment, of purpose, of achieving something that will live forever. People who experience this kind of excitment find flying and sailing and space travel exciting, and always will.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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