Why so much controversy over space tourism?

[ebub]

Can anyone please explain to me why there is so much controversy over space tourism?<br /><br />I've heard people talking about space tourism (locally and on the Internet) like it's a bad thing. Why?<br /><br />What the heck could anyone possibly have against it? Someone gets to go to space. Someone else makes money. What's the big deal?

 

[MeteorWayne]

Here's some ideas.<br /><br />It's very expensive.<br />You're risk of dying is much higher than in almost any other human activity, particularly if you cut ANY corners.<br />Maybe "homemade rubber band bungee cord jumping" is higher. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[j05h]

> It's very expensive.<br /><br />But her question involved opposition to space tourism. Why do some people have such a revulsion to other people spending their own money? That is the real question.<br /><br /> /> You're risk of dying is much higher than in almost any other human activity, particularly if you cut ANY corners. <br /><br />False or unproven. 50,000 people die on America's highways every year. Many everyday activities are vastly more dangerous than the proposed tourism vehicles, never mind the proven Soyuz. Other forms of "adventure tourism" are much, much more dangerous: climbing Mt. Everest, cave diving, free climbing, etc all kill far more people than any current or proposed space tourism. <br /><br />My answer is that some people just hate seeing others have fun.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[rocketman5000]

currently it is a form of elitism. How many times do you hear people making snide remarks about people driving Lamborgis or extravagant houses etc.

 

[bdewoody]

Depends on whether you are talking about "commercial" space tourism or very rich people buying rides on a russian vehicle or the space shuttle.<br /><br />I'm all for Burt Rutan developing a commercial vehicle that "civilians" can pay for a ride on but not so sure some rich S.O.B. should be able to bump a legitimate scientist off the shuttle just so he/she can get his/her kicks. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em><font size="2">Bob DeWoody</font></em> </div>

 

[j05h]

> Depends on whether you are talking about "commercial" space tourism or very rich people buying rides on a russian vehicle or the space shuttle.<br /><br />No paying space flight participant has ever flown on the Shuttle, only politically connected people like Bill Nelson and that Saudi prince. Jon Denver, the singer, begged NASA to fly him (he reportedly offered them a pile of $$, too) and they rejected him. The Russian Soyuz is a commercial rocket run by a company called Energia. Do you fault them for trying to make money? <br /><br />Again, no "rich S.O.B." has ever bumped a scientist from a shuttle flight. <br /><br />I do agree with the other post that it is elitism/anti-elitism involved in this. The same arguments occured with automobiles, electricity, telephones, jetliners and other inventions. The fact is the rich (and dreamers) blaze trails for the rest.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

I guess I should clarify a bit. She asked why there was controversy. I gave her some objections, I did not say they were mine. Believe me if the safety and price conditions change to where I could afford it and have a 99% chance of returning alive, SIGN ME UP!<br /><br />Realistically, what do we have so far?<br /><br />Very expensive state run programs. They're relatively safe in small numbers.<br /><br />Other than the shuttle. Very expensive, and not safe enough for tourism. If 1 out 0f 60 times you drove your car it blew up, or disintegrated as you pulled in the driveway, how many vacations would you take with it?<br /><br />The Russians are cheaper (but not tourism cheap- I don't consider $20 million cheap, maybe you do <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and more reliable, but again, very small numbers. A dozen people a year.<br /><br />Private? Two flights to 100 km. That's it so far. Is that tourism? Seems more like an adventure to me. Tourism is at the very least a platform (hotel) in LEO. So if a safe vehicle comes out, there's a place to go, and the price is reasonable, then tourism can be considered. That is not the case now, so that's a reason for opposition/controversy <i> at this time </i><br /><br />I have no revulsion for people spending their money. Other than jealousy <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I hope it happens before I take "the big trip". <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[ebub]

Actually, space tourism's not just for the rich any more. There's more than one company out there allowing "regular" people (people who are filthy rich) a chance at a trip to space... Granted, they aren't GUARANTEED a seat, but at least they have a chance at winning. Kind of like the lottery, but with better odds. (See my signature for one example.)

 

[ebub]

Actually, the statistics for the human flights are pretty gruesome. Think about it. How many space shuttles are there in the fleet? And TWO OF THEM have already blown up. TWO. <br /><br />So I wouldn't personally want to go up in one of the space shuttles...<br /><br />But as with any other technology, we humans get better at it through the years. So we suck at it right now. We're bound to get better.<br /><br />And give NASA a little credit. The space shuttles each have over a million parts. My car doesn't have nearly that many parts, and stuff goes wrong with it all the time!<br /><br />Finally, I think part of the problems with the space shuttles are simply due to beaurocracy. Any time you get a beaurocracy running something that complicated, you're gonna get screw ups. It's inevitable. There's no caring individual at the top whose butt's on the line for the whole mess. With privatized human space missions, the mission success record and safety record are bound to improve.

 

[mithridates]

This is why I'm excited about the vehicle used for Virgin Galactic. The air launch lets it just glide to the ground in case anything goes wrong, minimal moving parts, light design, feathered re-entry etc. and especially the lack of SRBs make it much safer than the Shuttle. I don't think I would go up in the Shuttle myself even if given the opportunity; I would rather wait a few years.<br /><br />You're right about the bureaucracy. Thanks to the Air Force the Shuttle had to have delta wings instead of regular wings, upping the weight and the price quite a bit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Again, when we see a private craft making regular flights I'll get excited. When there's somewhere to go, I'll sign up. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[ebub]

True, current space tourism isn't really taking us anywhere... It's not like you can just book a private flight to Venus or something.<br /><br />But part of the reason that so many people want to go into space is just to experience zero gravity. And to do that, you don't have to go too far. In fact, all you have to do is go into orbit, or do some parabolic flights.<br /><br />Personally, I myself would LOVE to do a zero-g flight, even if just for a few minutes. I saw the guys from Wild Boyz (the dudes from the tv show "Jackass") do it. It looked cool, except for the part where he puked.<br /><br />A long flight would be cool, too, but I think the newness would wear off after a couple of days... Kinda like riding your favorite roller coaster too many times. So I don't care if I can't get all the way to another planet. I feel no more need to spend a couple years getting to Mars and back any more than I would need to spend a couple of years in DisneyWorld rather than a day (or two).<br />

 

[newtron]

I'd figure it'd be the ol' anti-space exploration argument slightly modified: "Why waste money on that? Theres more important things to spend money on!".<br /><br /> It becomes a matter of opinion over fact at this point (in most cases).

 

[MeteorWayne]

While a zero G flight would be nice, heck you can do that on the Vomit Comet.<br /><br />Now a week in earth orbit...that I'd go for! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[spacester]

It's the looking down on the Blue Marble thing. That's why most people want to go IMO. <br /><br />That's why suborbital works and that's why spin-gravity is important to develop. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nexium]

Clearly space tourism can produce some revenue, but the lawyers will get most of it each time there is an injury or death, unless the injured parties refuse to sue. Unfortunately suits are occassionally successful even when the parties have signed that they will not sue. While space travel by the mile is quite safe, it is high risk by the hour. Lowering the risk is very costly, so only high risk travel is likely to ever be in the cost range for middle class folkes. Neil

 

[earther53]

"Face piles of trials with smiles"<br />"It riles them to perceive", that you perceive the web they weave" <br /> 'The Moody Blues" Mark Pinder....writer

 

[earther53]

Nya nya!!!.... Just kiddin, I really am 53...lol Mmmm? Let's see now, how many deaths have been attributed to space exploration? mmmmm? 3 no make that 5 two were from Russia. And let me see now...we've been in space for what...40 years now? Longer if you go all the way back to Sputnik or even to Verner von Braun's back yard as a child in the 1920s building homemade rockets and lighting them up to watch them go so far sometimes that he was unable to see them. How exciting that must have been!!! Most people in the midwest and NW were still driving a horse and buggy during that period for cryin out loud !!! LOL LOL LOL<br /> Anyway, my point is that space exploration and working or even tourism is the safest occupation on the market right now. Amazing isn't it?

 

[earther53]

Yes, isn't that something? People will &%$#@! about anything. First of all let's analyze the phrase "tourism". Hell the word itself denotes the action of people on vacation spending, even splurging thier money away on fun!!!. I say if one wants to spend thier hard earned cash on touring a hostile environment to "relax" and "vacation"...well more power to 'em. I only wish I am able to go into space before I die.<br /> I have to admit, I made a huge mistake in my last post. I gave the false impression that only 5 astronauts died in space exploration. The number is more acurately 24. I forgot the shuttle tragedies for some stupid goddamn reason!!! I hate it when I do that...lol..<br /> So, to get back to the original topic...why is there so much controversy over "space tourism." ? I just don't know, except that our fellow human beings seem to be xenophobic, and therefore scared &%$#@!less over what or who might be out there. As well they should be concerned, for they are here and have been visiting for thousands of years, like it or not...believe it or not...I myself have been the object of ridicule for my unabashed views and my story of a personal close encounter. <br /> Soooooo, Let's make space a safe environment for not just workers who will build our edifices but those who this post is about in the first place, the tourists. I know I will love the chance to go into space if I got it. How about you????

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Let's see now, how many deaths have been attributed to space exploration? mmmmm? 3 no make that 5 two were from Russia. And let me see now...we've been in space for what...40 years now? Longer if you go all the way back to Sputnik or even to Verner von Braun's back yard as a child in the 1920s building homemade rockets and lighting them up to watch them go so far sometimes that he was unable to see them. How exciting that must have been!!! Most people in the midwest and NW were still driving a horse and buggy during that period for cryin out loud !!! LOL LOL LOL <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Actually, the midwest is not as backwards as all that. The horse and buggy was definitely on the way out by the 20s. And the 20s doesn't count as being in space. There was nothing in space at that point.<br /><br />Deaths directly attributable to space exploration....actually, the list is much, much longer than you think, especially if you don't limit it to just astronauts. But even if you do limit it to astronauts...well, seven people died on their return from orbit just three years ago. I'm not sure how you missed that in the news. Columbia was all over the popular press. All told, 21 actual crew have died in their spacecraft.<br /><br />Deaths of actual crew aboard spacecraft:<br /><b>Apollo 1</b>, January 27, 1967, three dead in on-pad test<br />Virgil "Gus" Grissom, Ed White (America's first spacewalker), and Roger Chaffee were conducting on-pad testing a few weeks prior to the planned liftoff. Poor insulated wiring caused a spark, which led to a horrendous fire in the 14 PSI pure oxygen environment of the cabin. AS-204 was posthumously designated Apollo 1 to honor the dead crew.<br /><br /><b>Soyuz 1</b>, April 23, 1967, one dead on return from space<br />Vladimir Komarov was killed during the emergency return of Soyuz 1, a mission which had been fraught with problems from the beginning, but seemed survivable. Aft <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[shadowsound]

People fear what they don't understand. The stopping of the shuttle for repairs was right in that there were a number of engineering problems. That they caused people to die in a very public and personal way was the unfortunate part. <br />The Government Politicians decided to finance the repair because of voter pressure.<br /><br /> If I had a chance to ride on the ship and it still had a chance of happening again I would.<br /><br />Anyone who have decided to go up on one of the new tourist ships has taken that risk into account. <br /><br />

 

[menion2]

Right now "commercial space tourism" can only be seen as an extreme sport. Extreme sports always carry a significant chance of injury or death, or else they wouldn't be "extreme".<br /><br />People given the chance will gripe about anything. Just think about how many people complain in the winter about it being too cold and in the summer complaining that it's too hot. Who cares, it's the weather, if you don't like it wait for a while it will change.<br /><br />In addition the reason many investors (the people should actually worry about gripeing) is that as of right now space tourism has a fairly high risk of return on the investment. When space tourism evolves to the point that it is not just an "extreme sport" and actually has a reasonable risk of return, people will stop gripeing. Or atleast the people who matter will stop gripeing ;-).

 

[nyarlathotep]

No, they'll still find something to gripe about. But then it will be about the CO2 footprint or the innocent moss that the landing gear is crushing on the runway.<br /><br />

 

[shadowsound]

Unfortunately true.<br />An operations controller at one time for Loral skynet I've flown, Telstar, Echostar, and Sirius when it was just put up. I've followed the industry in the news. <br />Flying Satellite, one of the Ultimate remote control experiences besides remote probes. ;-)<br /> <br /><br />