zombie satallite destruction

[LKD]

I have a question that is part physics, but I was guessing at the right forum and this seemed the right one to explain where I could be wrong here.

If this satellite is such trouble, why can't we send up a missile where the warhead is a couple of harpoons with carbonfibre, or kevlar wire, and drag it into the earth's atmosphere with a couple rocket engine fires?

Or is this far to simple to work?

 

[vattas]

We aren't going to do this because it's a little bit more expensive than you think. Also, such approach will certainly create some debris, which may be more dangerous than uncontrollable but still whole satellite.

 

[orionrider]

The zombie roams geostationary orbit, the most expensive place to send a satellite. Since it is broken, its company has already a lot of trouble staying afloat, with all the contracts it can't fulfill anymore. How would they find the money to develop and launch an engine to put the zombie in a 'graveyard' orbit? Who's gonna pay for that?

I think it should be mandatory for satellite operators to install autonomous systems to 'suicide' the bird if it goes zombie. Either de-orbit for LEO or graveyard orbit for GEO.

 

[LKD]

Re: zombie satellite destruction

I understand and appreciate the expense of this. But that it is not manned, the payload would only be a rocket pack and an anchor that only has to survive launch accurate enough to hit target... I would think we could do it for under 10,000,000.

I agree on the self destruction mandate for satellites. But someone needs to clean up space from the debris in orbit already. I guess we'll have to pay for it, but likely the military would already want one of these things if it were possible. Is it even possible?

I just find it frustrating that anything that goes up in space is considered fire and forget. It's maddening because we all know whats going to come of it if we don't start cleaning things. If they weren't flying at 20,000 mph I don't think it would bother me, but when a paint chip has the exaggerated kinetic force of a tank shell...

 

[samkent]

autonomous systems to 'suicide' the bird if it goes zombie

You already have your answer. You can’t rely on it to determine if it has become ‘zombie’. There have been many examples of ground controllers coming up creative solutions to what otherwise should have been fatal failures. Plus that would be just one more circuit that could fail.

 

[DarkenedOne]

To be honest with you this is just part of a larger problem. You simply cannot self-destruct a satellite if it is no longer obeying your commands because it is no longer obeying your commands. Going up there and manipulating it would not be worth the cost.

Ultimately we need a way to get rid of space objects that pose a threat to both our space assets and Earth. To me lasers really the only decent option. All these options that involve sending up another spacecraft are not going to be economically worth it. A ground or space based laser system would be the most economic solution. In using a laser nothing is consumed except energy, which is inexpensive both on Earth and in orbit.

 

[orionrider]

the payload would only be a rocket pack and an anchor that only has to survive launch accurate enough to hit target... I would think we could do it for under 10,000,000.

Even if it was cheap, who's going to pay? You can't make a bankrupt company pay anything...
Besides, you would need a large 'rocket pack' to nudge a bus-sized satellite above GEO. And you can't just destroy it or you would pollute the whole orbit with thousands of fragments.

You can’t rely on it to determine if it has become ‘zombie’.

I was thinking of a redundant 'fail-safe' system, completely independent: separate power, coms, CPU, thrusters, etc. You trigger it remotely and it pushes the whole thing to the graveyard orbit.

To me lasers really the only decent option.

Lasers are OK for short range, maybe LEO, but not for GEO. It's simply too far and power gets lower wit the square of distance... Also, when vaporizing part of the sat you must ensure you don't blow some hydrazine tank apart, creating more debris...